Classic Jets fan response, dude is awful, its almost as good as the Cromartie celebration the time everybody was always complaining about his penalties an were happy he left, now he is also a savior
What would you have liked us to do We had to bring in another qb and he knows the system. I haven't seen anyone act like he is going to take us to the super bowl or anything.
No, you created an extreme; a QB throwing for 300 yards avg, 2 TD's and 0 INTS but the team goes 0-16. That's an extreme hypothetical that has no basis in reality.
But then you also have to explore who were the QBs that played in his place in those other games. My position isn't dependent in there not being worse QBs in the league that backed him up. What would it show that Fitz made the Bills better than another QB that isn't a viable NFL starter?
Yes, I created an extreme QB and an extremely awful defense to illustrate the point, and both did exactly that. I then followed up with more than a few QBs, a number of whom who happen to be in the Hall of fame, who had poor W/L records. I'll try to make it perfectly clear to you. Warren Moon's record of 102 wins vs 101 losses shows that W/L record is not a good method of evaluating a QBs abilities.
Thank you for proving my point. You can't admit you made an extreme hypothetical and dispute that it wasn't appeal to extreme. Additionally, you continue up commit a second logical fallacy -- the Strawman, when you claim my argument was based solely on win-loss records and dispute that position. Or are you arguing that Moon and Fitzpatricks other stats are equal too? Not to mention there is a gaping difference between a QB with a career winning percentage of .500 and one with a winning percentage of .356. How the hell are you arguing those are comparable? This isn't going very well for you.
Can't admit that I made an extreme hypothetical ? Dude, I straight up said that it was a Reductio ad absurdam argument. Here's the direct quote: As for your claim that I created a strawman and misrepresented you... Here are your statements at the outset of the discussion. There's no strawman as your entire argument vis a vis Fitz was based on his W/L record as that is what you harped on continuously. It then digressed into a back and forth with Big Blocker as to whether W/l record was an individual stat. I didn't say anything about Moon and Fitz's other stats as YOU haven't been arguing or discussing other stats in this thread. Again, you've harped on W/L record as a valid method for evaluating QBs. Warren Moon's w/l record is just over 50% yet he's a freaking HoF QB. Again, this demonstrates that W/L record is a not a meaningful way to evaluate QBs.
its not? then why were you here pounding your chest about your hero Timmy Tebow and his 8-6 career record for years?
One is because in that small sample size of 14 games, you could look at them individually and see a person's impact. Take the Jets game for example. It was a single tally in the win column, but you could look at that game winning drive. Of the 95 yards gained, he passed or ran for 90 of them. Another is the context of the record as a whole as some have discussed here. Denver was 1-4 when he took over and Denver had been something like 5-22 under Orton. Again, small sample sizes. There you have two QBs working with largely the same personnel and the same coaching staff. Additionally, each started 2 games against common opponents, SD and Oak. Still, it's not a "this proves it" argument. It's one piece to be looked at in the context of an overall argument. (BTW, I had reservations about answering this post as I don't want to get off topic and turn this into a thread about Tebow. That said, you asked a valid question that deserved a reply. )
Just because I am arguing win- loss is a QB stat doesn't mean I am arguing he is an Bad QB solely because his win-loss record. I argued that he is a bad QB that has no positive impact on wins, and his win-loss record proves that. Nothing about anything you just quoted equates to my arguing he is a bad QB because his win-loss record. To dispute my position you created a Strawman about win-loss being the sole element of my conclusion and then disputed that false argument. That's the definition of a Strawman. And then to defend your Strawman you created your nonsensical appeal to extreme. This is only getting worse for you.
Don't forget to mention about how jets fans were acting like stalker ex girlfriends thinking that Revis would ever come back
Are you freaking kidding ? Based on the evidence in this thread, you don't even have a grasp of high school level logic. You've repeatedly argued that Fritz isn't a good QB based on his w/l record. That you want to sit here and deny it even after I've quoted the posts and highlighted the pertinent passes is simply mind boggling. You're like a guy who swears that he didn't put his hand in the cookie jar, and then you stick to that claim even while a video tape is playing showing you reaching right on into it. I didn't create a strawman. I read your freaking posts and replied demonstrating that your logic and therefore your position is highly flawed.
stats schmats....... I don't think he's good based on all the games I've seen him play against the JETS, and there have been plenty. At least he'll give a shit unlike Vick, so we have that going for us........
Fitz went 6-6 for a team that ended up 9-7 last year, which doesn't sound like he helped them much. But he also was the Qb who was in there for losses to the Giants in New York, Dallas at Dallas, Indy, Pittsburgh at Pitt, and Philly (in fact while 8-4 against the AFC, Houston was 1-3 against the NFC, and in division not surprisingly lost both games agaisnt Indy while sweeping the rest of the division). Of those losses 3 of 6 were by a single score or less, the dallas loss being in OT on a FG. Put it all together and at this stage of his career Fitz sounds like a Qb who, if he keeps his turnovers down, can keep you in a game, and that's more than we can say about Smith. the hope is if the Jets get Mariota Fitz can give the team the hope they can be in games all through the season, and allow Mariota time to develop. One can hope.
No, that's not what I argued. Either you haven't read this thread or your reading comprehension is as pathetic as your understanding of logic. You continue to argue against your own Strawman. I'll summarize it for you. I argued even if he is better than Geno it wouldn't likely equate to more wins than Geno. That was challenged and started a separate argument of whether wins-losses were a QB stat. I argued they were. Nothing about that remotely equates that I was arguing win-losses are what determines whether a QB is good it not. Just because you can quote posts where I discuss wins-losses as a defense to my position that he isn't good doesn't mean they are solely what that is based on, which is what you were arguing in your Strawman and extreme that asked whether your hypothetical QB is bad solely on his record. So sad for you.
/headshake. Your entire argument in this thread is based off Fritz's w/l record. Do you not understand that ? Here's a perfect example of it: What it boils down to is that Fritz is a better QB than Geno at this point even though his w/l record doesn't reflect it. Will Geno improve ? Don't know. IF he doesn't, the Jets would be in a better position with Fritz behind center. "Better position" being defined as all else being equal, the Jets will probably win more games.
FWIW, 2 of Houston's final 4 games were against Jax (3-13). Both were victories, but then just about everyone beat Jax. Another game was against Baltimore. Flacco threw 3 interceptions in that game. Houston's D also held the Ravens to 33 yards rushing. Houston kicked 6 FGs and Arian Foster threw a TD.
No, that was not my entire argument. Read the thread. I stated explicitly in several posts that I was not considering win-Loss solely in my argument against Fitz. The fact that you still champion this as my argument and continue to argue against that is the textbook definition of Strawman. Quoting posts where I discuss win-loss doesn't equate to win-loss being the sole criteria if my argument. You are ignoring that and jumping to the illogical and irrational conclusion that discussing win-Loss must equate to win-loss being the sole factor the argument. That's a ridiculous conclusion to jump to and an indictment of your rationale not my argument because it's a reflection on you if you jump to such an asinine conclusion. And it is par for the course for you. In the course of our debate you have argued three completely asinine or illogical arguments; 1. That by discussing win-loss my opinion of Futz is based solely on win-loss and no other QB stats. That's a completely asinine conclusion to jump to. 2. You create an appeal to extreme with a QB that has a high QB rating but is on an 0-16 team. Only an unreasonable and illogical person would create such a ridiculous scenario to argue. 3. You use that asinine appeal to extreme to defend your Strawman that win-loss is all I am arguing. You do this all in the face of existing posts in this thread where I declared win-loss is not what I am using solely in my opinion of Fitz. The more you argue the more you continue to commit the illogical and irrational arguments and behavior I have pointed out. It's your choice if you want to continue to look foolish.
This is getting to be absolutely unfarking real and you are out of your farking mind. Seriously. Big Blocker, NotSatoshiNakamoto and I have all read your posts in this thread the same way, but according to you, we are misreading/misrepresenting things ?? That fact is that you have absolutely no fucking clue what you are talking about. Your knowledge and understanding of stats and/or logic are high school level at best. Actually, junior high is probably closer to the truth. As to the question of w/l being the only criteria for your argument, as best I can tell, it's the only freaking argument that you've offered up vis a vis Fritz in this entire thread. Seriously, it's like arguing with a 4 year old who remains wholly convinced that 2+3=27. Doesn't matter what evidence is presented that the answer is actually 5, you stamp your little foot, you get all huffy and say "uh uh, it's 27." Based on your argument, bringing in Warren Fucking Moon during his playing days wouldn't have been an upgrade over Geno due to the fact that his w/l record was right at 50% and Geno has shown that he can win 8 games. Let the fucking sink in for a minute or two as it highlights just how stupid your claim is.
