no he didn't. Vereen, Faulk, Woodhead have been products of Brady. Welker was always overrated made to look much better b/c of Brady. How many games did Kyle Orton and Matt Cassell win in postseason? Manning doesn't get to the playoffs w/ the '06 or '13 Pats. Brady had them on the doorstep of the SB. what is so funny about it? Manning has NEVER played a season w/o elite weaposn to throw to, imagine having to throw to Reche Caldwell and Jabar Gaffney or having what he had in 2013? Manning barely was able to win w/ Harrison, Wayne, Clark and company(thanks to extreme luck in the matchups and his D playing lights out as Peyton struggled that postseason).
that's a load of bull. Brady's style of play makes oline better. here is my take on pats oline. 1. Brady is immobile. he is a dead meat if he holds on to the ball to long. he is not michael vick. he ain't even steve young or aaron rodgers. dude is a master of the pocket passing, but he can't buy you a time with his feet. that's why brady normally gets rid of the ball under 2 sec. brady ranks top 5 every year in time to throw category. 2. and brady's immobility changes the mentality of the football team. pats offense is a precision clock work. they master it during the season. pats struggle early because timing isn't right. everybody isn't on the first page yet. september is the preseason for pats. but when they settle down they become a machine. and when you have this offensive machine, things become easy for the oline. they just have to react and just do their job. they don't have to think. they just play as a unit. this is part coaching and part greatness of brady. brady makes the oline. that's why he is consistently great. 3. brady knows the where pressure is coming. brady's presnap ability is genius. brady usually figures it out before the play happens. 4. brady's pocket awareness/presence is godly - how many time we've seen brady avoids pressure and steps into the pocket and deliver the 20 yard dart? this is the major difference between a guy brian hoyer or a HOF QB. brady's subtle footwork and his ability avoid pressure and step up to throw is brilliant. you can pretty much say brady makes the oline. as long as olinemen are good enough to start in this league then brady will get the job done. who has the worst oline in the NFL? give brady the pats O (jules, lafell, gronk, etc, etc) and plug brady in that oline - that oline will play much better by week 6.
bad QBs make bad oline because 1. they discourage oline. IMO, football is 50% pyschological battle. 2. they hold on to the ball too long because their brain process speed is slower. Brady makes quick read, and make quick judgments. bad QBs is slow above shoulder. 3. bad QBs make defense fired up. when brady comes to town, their goal is get to the QB. but what happens in the game? brady usually marches down the field methodically. this gives doubts to the D. when the D plays the bad QB, they know they can get to the QB. they are so fired up because it's an easy sack or easy INT. they play harder during the game because it's a stat padding time. 4. bad QB breaks oline by bad communication. playing football is a communication business. bad QBs don't know how to communicate with their oline. they don't know what they are doing collectively. so they give up passing games and just run the ball because it's simpler. 5. bad QBs don't know how to lead. they aren't a leader of men. if oline doesn't believe the general is back there, how can they have a belief in themselves to protect their general? yes, there are some super star olinemen who can come right in and make a difference right away. but oline play is all about accountability. they have to play together and have a great communication. x's and o's are just part of the game. and this is the reason why great QBs can win 8-9 games in any situation. Brady creates a culture of winning. this culture may not show up in a stat sheet. but we all know pats have a great culture of winning and brady is a major part of it.
Yes he has Um... Wow... So much ignorance in such a short sentence... Woodhead caught 76 passes from Philip Rivers in his first year in SD. Let me guess.. that's somehow a product of Brady right? The Jets used him incorrectly, and he was a perfect match for NE's offense Kevin Faulk caught 51 passes in 2000 (Pre Brady) because he was a perfect match in NE's style of offense. Vereen will get to show how he is NOT a product of Brady. That's such a mind blowingly ignorant statement that it must have been a joke. Yeah, sure he was. He looked much better because he was utilized correctly. There is a pattern here although you will never be able to see it. The Pats knew that they had a mismatch in the slot with him. They have used other players in much the same manner. He was much better than any nickel corner, safety or OLB he would be lined up against. He utilized his quickness and would easily defeat any one in coverage. He'd make his break based on the leverage of his defender. He was put in this position by his extremely intelligent coaches. Brady benefited IMMENSELY from having Welker. It was so obvious that you were going to make this statement that I had already addressed it. I'll repeat what I said earlier when I said no one is comparing these guys to Brady, but their BEST seasons were IN THIS SYSTEM. look, I know you hate Manning, but you saying stupid comments like this does nothing to prove any level of objectivity. Yeah, there's no way Manning makes it to the playoffs with weapons such as Gronk, Edelman, Amendola, Vereen ENOUGH about ELITE WEAPONS. It shows a complete lack of understanding of Offensive Football. The Patriots offense does not need elite talent to be successful. They go after specific types of players. They know how to use them in very specific ways. Why do you think the types of players are very similar from the one's they used many years ago. The ONLY player they have brought in that was not like any other player they have brought in before was Randy Moss. Manning played in 2010 with Pierre Garcon, Donald Brown, Austin Collie, Joseph Addai.... Yeah, that's a bunch of elite players........ , I wouldn't expect you to understand this, but Manning played extremely well against the Ravens in Balt, was the MAIN reason for the comeback in the AFCCG, and played a great game against KC despite the 3 INTs where Ty Law played great. Yes, he won a SB when the defense FINALLY stepped up. Would Manning have Brady's ELITE coaching? He would have been just fine in 2006 or 2013. Brady's weapons have never been as bad as you try to make them seem. He's had elite coaching. He's had elite defenses. He's had the perfect players for their offense. He's had elite OL's. He hasn't been playing with Div III players all these years.
I didn't even bother reading past what I bolded. After I read that I knew you had no clue what you are talking about. Brady absolutely is mobile. He doesn't run a 4.4 40, but that doesn't make him immobile. One of the best things he does is buy time in the pocket. He's great at stepping up and avoiding the rush. He makes defenders miss him all the time. That's why the best way to defense him is getting pressure up the middle from the DL (not the blitz because their elite OL always picks up the inside blitz). It's also why I prefer drafting Danny Shelton and teaming him up with Snacks Harrison in the middle (much like the 2000 Ravens did with Siragusa and Adams) and allowing Richardson and Wilkerson one on one with the OT's.
well you should read the whole thing. i did mention brady's footwork and his awareness. i'm just saying brady isn't rodgers/young/big ben who can buy time with their feet. all i'm saying is speed isn't brady's forte. brady was very much marino like. brady is a jump roper and he moves very well like a boxer. but it takes forever for him to get to point A to point B.
rivers is borderline elite. last year he was definitely top 5 ish. so woodhead playing well isn't surprising. guys like woohead is plenty. they have to be in a right situation to be successful. carcon last year caught 113 passes 1346 yards last year with lowly skins. so your point is on peyton manning's 2010 season is moot.
The only ignorance here is thinking Peyton Manning is better than Brady and trying to minimize the greatness of Tom Brady. Ohhh the Jets used him incorrectly, maybe we should have used him as a passing option out of the backfield- oh wait that's what we did. Woodhead was targeted 88 times when he caught 76 passes and only had avg of 8 yds per rec, a year earlier had 11.2 Richie Anderson caught 90 balls once, what is the point? the bottom line is these are average players, they are not Reggiw Eayne's, Dallas Clark's Julius Thomas' Demaryius Thomas', Marvin Harrison's. the ignorance is coming from your side trying to take away from Brady and make it seem like Brady has played w/ better players than he has. Welker is nothing more than an average player. when he had Moss and Gronk to command all the attention he thrived, when we put Revis on him we shut him down but teams didn't put their top corners on him b/c they had other worries. extremely intelligent coaches who have never won anything w/o Brady. Amazing how much smarter Brady makes a coach look. Remember Charlie Weis? Genius! Josh McDaniels- Genius! all these guys look smart w/ Brady, not so smart elsewhere. awesome, so they put up better #s and still lost. I know why you love Peyton. Stupid comments are pretending NE had elite talent, it's not stupid to say Manning doesn't make playoffs w/ the NE '06/'13 talent. He has had elite talent since day 1 and only won 1 SB thanks to others around him. Manning went 6-10 in 2001 w/ much more talent even w/ the injuries they had. The Patriots offense does not need elite offensive weapons BECAUSE OF TOM BRADY Did the Colts cut Reggie Wayne in 2010? did I miss that? so we just ignore their best player and the guy who would have been the best WR on NE in every year outside of 2007 for NE w/ Brady. I remember the Garcon talk, the same guy who was about 50 yds shy of 1,00 rec yds in 2011 w/ the crap Indy had at QB and the same guy that had 1300+ yds w/ injured RG III and Kirk Cousins in 2013. Nah, he sucked. Donald Brown and Joseph Addai are 2 huge reasons Peyton has his only SB. Manning was awesome in Baltimore not leading his high powered offense to a single TD and keeping a bad Bal offense in the game w/ 2 INTs which the Indy D(the main reason Peyton has that one lonely SB ring despite SB caliber talent around him his entire career) picked off McNair the next possession to save the great Peyton. He played great in the 2nd half of the AFC Championship but he was THE reason they were in that hole to begin with and Brady led an awful offense to 27 pts in that loss. the average pts Manning has led his high powered O's to in playoff losses has been 14.2 PPG w/ elite talent but yeah Peyton would have been great w/ Caldwell and Gaffney. Brady has never had elite defenses and the elite coaches somehow are only elite when around Brady. Brady has had mostly average talent around him his entire career. Compare the rosters of Den and NE this year, it's a joke that NE won a SB and Manning AGAIN was one and done.
If we're going to give credit to QBs not having elite talent around them, then you have to move Marino and Elway FURTHER up the chain--but since they are already number 2 and 3, you can't move them up to 1 over Montana. Marino never had a running game--ever--when running games were critical in the NFL. Same for Elway, give him Terrell Daivs and he sweeps the next 2 SBs. Either guy is on the current Pats run and they each probably win 5 SBs a piece. End thread. _
Elway didn't win a SB until he had top talent. Marino never had a run game until late in his career b/c they wanted Marino to pass all the time and he wanted to pass all the time. Brady never had a TD to hand off to, had a good back for 2 years and won a SB w/ him too.
Manning's D's have allowed less PPG in postseason than the "great" Brady D's. switch the QBs and Indy/Den have 4-5 SBs while NE has maybe 1.
Laughable.. I didn’t bring up Manning.. .YOU DID. You have an obsession with the comparison. The Jets used Danny Woodhead correctly?????? Umm… No we didn’t, and it’s quite obvious seeing how TWO teams have used him as a weapon out of the backfield. The ignorance is the fact that you have no idea what the hell you are talking about. Brady has had weapons, and the Patriots have done a great job fitting in personnel that works IN THEIR SYSTEM. You will never understand that, because you don’t understand football. But it’s hilarious to watch you scramble. Revis shuts down EVERYONE. What is your point?! Welker was an absolute mismatch for anyone other than Revis lining up against him. W/O Brady in 2008 Welker caught 14 passes for 180 yds in two games against the Jets. And for the season caught 111 passes.. ALL WITH MATT FUCKIN CASSEL as QB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Not just put up better numbers… HAD THEIR BEST YEARS OF THEIR CAREER! You seem to have a reading comprehension issue. I said the Pats had much better talent than you have given them credit for and that THEY ARE PERFECT FOR WHAT THE PATS DO ON OFFENSE. Just stop w/ this elite BS. Only 2 teams in NFL HISTORY at that point had given up more points than the 2001 Colts, but yeah, it was all on Manning…. . No, you’re right… Tom Brady blocks for himself, runs quick outs or ins, gets WIDE open, designs the plays, and creates mismatches by using unique formations. Have you ever noticed that HIS RECEIVERS ARE ALWAYS WIDE OPEN!? Yeah, that’s Brady doing it all.. Garcon was targeted ONE HUNDRED AND EIGHTY FOUR TIMES in 2013. It’s pretty unavoidable he would put up big FANTASY NUMBERS. In 2011 he was targeted 134 times and caught only 50% of his passes. I’m not impressed. But thanks for the fantasy stats. So funny.. .EVERYONE BUT MANNING IS WHY THEY ONE. You are so funny. Thanks. Manning made big passes including one of the best throws ever to Dallas Clark to basically seal the game. But keep looking at fantasy points to try to prove your point. They don’t get to or win that SB w/o Manning. This latest quote shows how ridiculous you really are. How many times have people blamed Sanchez for putting us in the holes we were in 2010 but you always redirected to how he played in the 4Q. Now it’s Manning, and it’s all about how bad he was in the 1H. He played OUTSTANDING in the 2nd half on their way to the win. BS, he had an elite defense in 2001, 2003, 2004 and this year. Especially this year. Are you telling me that John Fox, Tony Dungy or Jim Mora are better coaches than BB? There isn’t a better HC in the NFL over the last 15 years than BB and its not even debateable. I don’t compare rosters. It’s how each player fits into their scheme. Edelman on NE is superior to any DEN WR. How great was Demarious Thomas when he dropped THREE passes in the AFC DIV game including two on simple screen passes!! Dude you crack me up. BTW – You are the one who brought up Manning.. Not me. It’s an obsession with you. I’m just pointing out that a QB who’s primary competition are a bunch of choke artists cannot be GOAT. Sorry, Montana and Unitas played against much better QB’s in their era’s. Or that your theory of Brady playing with garbage players is COMPLETE NONSENSE.
Okay, but his lack of speed isn't why they ask him to get rid of the ball quickly. Their offense is designed for him to get rid of the ball quickly.
