Yea I watch him get swallowed up by the fat faces of the Oline, however I also know its not all his fault. How about we fix the dline? MY main point is that dont expect Vilma to be traded as several guys are suggesting.
I agree, I want him to be moved outside. D-Rob has to go, NT is #1 on our list right now, and a new NT should help Vilma out big time.
Vilma would be very effective if the personell were there up front. You absolutely need 3 stud d-lineman to pull off the 3-4 with the two gap responsibilty. The most crucial of the the three d-lineman in the nose. New England never had dominant sucess with the 3-4 until '03 with big Ted Washington, followed by Keith Traylor and now Vince Wilfork. Wilfork is coming around in year 3 now. Most college d-lineman are trained to shoot their one gap and get into the backfield. In the 3-4 they have two gaps they're responsible for and their job is to occupy two blockers and let the inside backers flow to the ball carrier. If the ILB has a 300+ lb lineman in his face, as Vilma apparently does, there's very little they can do to impede a ball carrier. Mangini should adjust his scheme until he has the proper personell to implement the 3-4. But, the 3-4 is the only d he's coached in pro ball. Not sure how schooled he is with the 4-3. As far as moving Vilma outside goes...there's no way he can make that move. 3-4 outside backers are almost like hybrid defensive end/linebackers. They need the size and speed to rush the passer with a hand on the ground and also be able to stand up and run with a tight end or slot receiver..... a la Willie McGinest, Mike Vrabel, Rosevelt Colvin....
I think you nailed it Sean. We just lack the personnel right now. Our team was too broken last January to patch up all the needs in one draft and FA market. We are on the right track, and we need to just stay the course.
Even Ray Lewis had critics in the 3-4. Ray Lewis also showed a complete disinterest for it. We've all read and heard about their buddy-buddy relationship and the comparisons that have been made. And sadly were in the same situation with Vilma. One thing I dont like is both our OLB's appear to blitz almost every play. might as well run a 4-3 where D-Rob can get a one on one with R.Moore or Kimo at DT. and Ellis back at DE. Maybe rotate Ball in. But otherwise what we now have is Hobson trying to engage lineman right off the snap and with his height he is clearly outmatched. He looked much better when he was dropped back to disguise his blitz and given time to gain speed so he can put a move on the lineman or be ready to engage. Thomas is in a two point stance getting stood up while trying to bullrush. Its obvious that Mangini has a plan for the 3-4 and we dont have the personnel yet. But the whole "were going to run whatever gives us the best chance to win" that is bullshit as of now. I'm not ripping or knocking him cuz hes done a better job than weve expected. But dont promise versatility and deliver the same look.
salution to all of our problems: 1) stop whining like little girls 2) move d-rob to end opposite ellis 3) get a big, run stuffing NT 4) get a real OLB, one able to rush the QB effectivly 5) leave Vilma at ILB 6) stop whining like little girls and get educated about football.. dont blame Vilma for what he can't help
Vilma is definitely staying. I think DRob's play has caused Vilma to struggle at times. Kinda like the domino effect. I could see DRob getting traded this off-season; that would not surprise me.
Without argument, Ray Lewis' best years were when he had the studs up front allowing him to just roam the middle of the field snarring passes and occaisonly just running un-detered to even the best of runners like Eddie George circa 1999-2000. When Siragua was manning the nose position Ray was free to flow wherever he wanted. As soon as the goose was gone, Ray's productivity declined. Vilma is the readl deal. He needs help up front.
the 3-4 defense all starts at the NT if the NT is inable to perform well, it affects the LBs a lot. If the LBs cant perform, the secondary becomes very, very vulnerable. Basically, drob and the NT position is why our entire defense is struggling
OLB's in a 3-4 are the bigger LB's. If you think he's too small for ILB in a 3-4, he would be WAY undersized at OLB. So please stop asking as it won't happen.
quietly contributing to one of the worst defenses in the nfl!!!! you guys are crazy if you think vilma has been anything less than disappointing. invisible....yes he needs a nose tackle but thats not the whole story....hes getting pushed around like a little bitch, cannot drop into coverage to save his life and has not made one impact play all season...take off the green glasses guy, hes been brutal....and if he continues to play like this than what the hell would we be losing if we did get rid of him? Rhodes has been the only bright spot on defense
Watching the game yesterday, I can't say with any certainty that Vilma's poor play can be attributed to any particular scheme. A number of times, he was out of position. The jags would run left, he would run the opposite direction after the ball was snapped. He was making bad reads. I didn't see him getting blocked that much really, I just saw him committing fatal miscues left and right. I'm not saying that he wouldn't benefit from a bigger NT in front of him, or from going back to the 4-3, but yesterday doesn't have too much to do with that.
i think its something to consider to tell you the truth. I know there are people on here that absolutely have extreme man-love for him, and while I think he's a very good player, he's not a GREAT player. Vilma is a good leader, hardworker, and a very good tackler, but he's not the impact playmaking LB that some are trying to make him out to be. He's average at best at coverage, and not a very good pass rusher. That being said he is what he is, and thats very good. As far as trading him goes, obviously you don't want to trade away your best defensive player on a whim, but I do think its something we could look into. If we truly want to rebuild with the 3-4 defense, a defense that he doesn't fit best into, it could be a good option to trade him if we get a great offer, perhaps for a great running back, or a big time draft pick, over this offseason.
we just need to switch back to the 4-3. and come draft time or free agency get a big boy to play the middle of the line. but next year stick with the 4-3 and mix it up with the 3-4.
Donnie edwards did fine in the 3-4 and he may be smaller. The difference is donnie has jamal williams in front of him.
Uhmm and how is that his fault that the QB would rather burn our sideline CB(Justin Miller) rather than throw it in the middle. Thats called respect for Vilma and where he is on the field.
I seriously doubt the other teams QB is thinking, "oh boy I can't throw it across the middle, that Vilma can shut down our WRs." That argument you make sometimes works for amazing shutdown corners, like maybe Deion is his day, Champ Bailey and what not, but it certainly doesnt work for a LB. They are HOPING our middle LB is covering one of their WRs. Also its not just this year, in his whole career thus far he has very few interceptions, batted down passes, sacks, etc, are you saying from his first start on, they have respected where Vilma was on the field? Even when he was a unproven small rookie?
I completely agree that Vilma is not the same in a 3-4 that he was in a 4-3 and I agree that a true NT would be the biggest help for this D....but there is something else here. A 3-4 is a less selfish defense especially for the front 7...Having a nose would help remove blockers but keep in mind if a blocker is occupying vilma than there should be other people around stepping up to make the play. Vilma will only be as good as the players around him...not just a NT but all of the front 7... I have not seen hobson or thomas step up this season and make plays when vilma has blockers in his face...nor have I seen them put pressure on the QB at all... Farrior is one of the best ILB in a 3-4 in the league and even won defensive player of the year a couple years ago, but hasn't been nearly as 'soectacular' or as much of a standout recently and yet the defense itself hasn't taken a hit at all...The reason is that when the offense plays to take out a player in a 3-4 another lb can step up...porter and foote have been much more noticable recently because by using blockers on farrior others are left with the new role as playmaker...granted they have one of the best noses in the game and and all around solid D but i think thats the difference We don't have a solid D...We have no nose and no OLBs....if our overall talent level steps up vilma will too because they won't be able to focus as much on him... He hasn't played particularly well in a 3-4 and part has to be a learning curve, but if teams keep focusing on taking him out of plays then someone at some point has to step up and no one has... Even with a nose we need an OLB to make this D even half respectable...no matter how good coverage is any good qb can pick apart a D if he has all day to pass...Vilma Barton and Ellis are by far the best 3 pieces in our front 7 and you don't trade the best players you have...plain and simple...Give this D a NT and an OLB(or 2) and you will see drastic improvement in Vilmas play... If you want to talk about trading a first round pick how about Thomas....someone I know I pulled for to make it in the 3-4 as an OLB...has anyone here been particularly impressed with his play? How about Robertson? Vilma may not be living up to his awesome play of the past 2 years but he is still a playmaker and the leader of the D...Who else do you want to call D plays and be the emotional leader of the team?
well last year vilma led the lead in tackles but had no sacks and onyl 1 int and still made it to the pro bowl.
