If he sticks it's a good thing because it means he will be playing well, and I wouldn't add a WR in FA. As far as drafting one in the first round, it totally depends. I'd prefer offensive line, but if there's a talent who they think is out of this world suddenly available you have to go with it sort of no matter what the position. QB, WR, ILB, OLB, CB, OL, if any player stands out above the rest when we pick, you have to take him.
But the difference there is that those teams did have needs at WR. New Orleans had an aging, big WR in Colston, a promising young starter in Stills, a spare vet in Meachem and two young, but largely unproven players. For a team so dependent on the passing game, this wasn't particularly impressive. In addition to two of those guys being 30, the Saints had little money invested in the position beyond Colston The Giants had two good players with Randle and Cruz, but little beyond that. Jernigan played better in 2013, but still wasn't too impressive and at the time of the draft, there was nothing beyond those three. And again here, the Giants have paid Cruz a decent amount, but not much money elsewhere. The Jets, on the other hand, now all of a sudden have a LOT of money invested here all as of 2014 too. Decker just got a big deal, they acquired Percy who would earn even more if he's here in 2015, and then Kerley was just re-upped on a sizable contract as well. I don't have all the numbers, but I'd be willing to bet the Jets are in the top few teams in terms of most money invested into wide receivers. And if Percy proves to be a productive receiver in these next games, as the premise of the thread is, that's a very nice group of players, plus the WR-like Amaro. Of course I wouldn't discount the Jets adding another guy somewhere in the draft or via free agency, but no more big acquisitions. They just made three (four if you count Amaro).
Harvin has not been more of a gadget player in his career. Seattle underutilized him severely, it was laughable how badly he was used watching those games recently. This thread is based around the idea that Harvin is just our secret weapon that we only utilize a handful of plays a game, I don't think that will be the case at all. He is going to be a big part of this offense and it's not going to be primarily out of the slot. If Harvin works out this season, we will be set at WR. Period. Harvin and Decker are a very capable duo on the outside, kerley is great inside. This is the best WR core we've ever had since Rex has been here. That will show once Harvin can get a grasp on the entire offense. They are not going to retool their offense just for Harvin, Harvin is going to learn the playbook that has already been established and I am willing to bet MM will be implementing a lot more plays that he simply couldn't do until Harvin got here. Which will include a lot more deep routed plays, those high probability deep plays can finally be used with two legit WR on the outside. I'm excited to watch this all unfold.
As far as Harvin being mostly a gadget or a slot player, I don't think that's actually been the case in the past. I read an article yesterday on the sidebar which showed his snaps and where he lined up. During his stay in Minnesota, the progression was clearly toward him becoming more of an outside receiver over time. As a rookie, he only lined up outside on around 12% of his snaps, lining up in the slot on the rest. The second year, that went up to 30%, then 38% in the 3rd year, and over 40% in the 4th and last year. So by the end, he was lining up outside almost half the time. Now when he went to Seattle, it dropped back down to around 25%, but that was the main reason he was unhappy there. Because of his unique talents, you do kind of want to spread him around, after all throwing him the ball in the slot is a lot easier on the QB and on the O-Line than connecting on a deep bomb, and he is still a threat to go deep on those short plays, but there is nothing historically that suggests he cant play outside on a regular basis. As far as injuries, we have to see if he can make it through this season unhurt. If he does, then in 6 NFL seasons, he would have had 4 relatively healthy seasons (played vast majority of games), 1 so-so season (9/16 games played), and one lost season (where he only played 1 game). That wouldn't be so bad, everyone gets hurt sometimes. If he misses significant time this season, on the other hand, that would make him a much higher risk, with only 3/6 seasons healthy. As far as drafting, if Harvin looks good AND stays healthy, I would be reluctant to draft a WR early, unless he is a LOT more talented than the other positions available that we have a greater need for. If he doesn't, then it's just back to regular BPA, weighted somewhat for need.
I like Torrey Smith but he is not elite. He has been good the past two weeks, but before that he was being outplayed by steve smith. He is very good, but labeling someone elite is very high praise of which he doesn't deserve (yet).
The Jets need more consistent QB play more than they need a true #1 WR, outside of a 2.5 year timeframe Brady never had one, many of the good QBs haven't had one. Brees doesn't, Rivers didn't, Brady doesn't, Luck doesn't really (Wayne is well past his prime and Hilton is 5'9), Eli doesn't, etc. What some do have right now, in the case of Brady, Brees, and Rivers (pre Allen), is outstanding TE play. Adding Harving alone should be enough in the short term, assuming he stays, however, I don't agree with the poster who said the Jets have the upper hand negotiating, Harvin went there without a choice, it is 100% his choice whether he stays beyond this year or not if the Jets aren't willing to pay him his true salary. He can sign a Hakeem Nicks deal and play elsewhere for a year to rebuild value. But for the pieces we know will be there, Amaro looks like a player so far, he's come on well recently, Decker is there long term and Kerley has proven capable before. They need a QB and help on the OL. The big tall WR can be found later in the draft, look at who the Panthers snagged at the end of the first round, if the Jets are drafting as early as expected, trading back into the late first isn't difficult, Keenan Allen was a 2nd or 3rd rounder I believe, more TE help can be found all over the draft, Gronk, Graham, and Hernandez were 2nd, 3rd, and 4th rounders. Guys like Boldin were 2nd rounders, DT was mid-late first rounder, Decker himself was a 3rd rounder. Good pass catchers don't need to be drafted early. Good QBs do, though, usually.
I dont doubt that he will be a big part of our offense. But I think we all can agree he isnt the typical traditional definition of a WR. He can do a lot of things on the field. And thats great. But to an extent. I guess Im more concerned about the injury history over anything else. He's only played 16 games in a season once in his career. Idzik went into this season with injury risks at CB and that burned him. Dont want the same mistake to be made at WR next year.
Whatever. Our team isn't remotely close, in any way to those teams. Now, in sticking with the topic: with our QB, even if Harvin makes an impact and sticks, it's prolly not enough. Meanwhile, every good QB, and good WR, bends us over....every damn game
Really? I don't think there is a more overused word in football nowadays than elite. Flacco is not close to being a top tier NFL QB. Wilson is on the way, but needs to play at this level for another 2-3 years. Torrey Smith is not close to being one of the league's best receiver and this season is not even the best receiver on the Ravens.
I feel they still need a bigg #1 WR, That would put the push the WR group from good to elite, which is necessary in a pass -happy NFL.
Wide receiver wouldn't be a glaring need. At that point it would about developing receivers for the future.
No matter what happens with Harvin, the first pick should be the best available of WR/OL. The second pick should be the best available out of what wasn't taken with the first pick. The third pick should be a CB. But even with Harvin in the mix, there is a big need for a tall, fast deep threat who can go up and get jump balls. You get that #1 WR and that will make a huge difference in the offense. Especially if the OL is beefed up.
Yeah, I agree with OL being priority one, gotta win that battle in the trenches to open holes for the run game and provide time in the pocket for the pass game.
harvin has no guaranteed money left, so even if he sticks,taking another wr high isn't a bad thing since harvin can be dumped when ever the new wr outplays him. decker and kerley onlyhave 2 more years of guranteed money also i believe, so any one of them can be moved out as a rookie developes.
A rookie first round receiver will not need time to develop if he is worth the pick. He should be put in the starting line up and expected to produce. If you want time to develop a talent it should not be a first round pick it should be taken later in the draft on a player who is raw but has potential to be that guy over time. We are not a pass first team, its not how we are built, and its not the philosophy of the front office either. They want to win with defense and a strong running game, that makes the WR position an afterthought. And even tho it is an after thought we already have a lot of resources tied into that position, if all goes according to plan we should be set at WR for four years.
Not at all. Westbrook and McCoy are much more solid, capable of taking a pounding in the running game. Harvin is 20 lbs less than either of them.
Harvin isn't a gadget player. Seattle made him one. That's why he was ineffective. He's effective as a WR/RB and can line up anywhere.
If Harvin sticks we probably don't go dipping for WR's through free agency, we'll get our veteran fill from he Decker and Kerley. The draft, I think, has little to do with Harvin, if at all. During the first round, Idzik will take the best talent he can at a position of relative need. By relative need, i mean anywhere thats not K/P and the D-line, BTW (we're good at D-line, that would be a waste of resources) So maybe thats a lineman, maybe thats a WR, maybe thats a QB, maybe thats a SOLB, who knows. It all depends on how things fall. JI took Pryor over Cooks because, to Idzik at least, Pryor was THE best safety in the draft, and that was a bettr use of resources than getting a WR that wasn't even the best to come out of the draft, no matter how much we wanted a WR. That said, he'll pick a WR if it seems obvious, I'd be shocked if at leads ONE WR wasn't chosen next year. and can we stow this number one WR bullshit already? or that Harvin can't play outside and that slot receivers don't play outside? he can and they do, we got our XYZ assuming Harvin works out. we don't need a top 5 fantasy football scoring 6'5 wideout to have a good WR corps, I feel like we overvalue the teams need for a "#1 type player". apparently theres only like 6 of those anyway, or 32 of those if the whole "a #1 is WR that draws the attention of top CB's" theory is any indication. (Doesn't ANY WR better than the others on his team warrant such attention? so aren't there technically 32 number ones based on their being 32 WR's that are better than their teammates?) we need to stop thinking that a WR corps has two 6'4 plus guys at split-end and one shorty in the slot. and we need to stop numbering WR's, for gods sake thats not even how they operate! who's our number one Linebacker! its the same thing!
