Answer the question and then you won't be insulted. You said you can't believe how "many" Christians "support" war. Then you say you're not trying to generalize them, then you bring up the Crusades or wars from a millenia ago. So how many is "many"? Most? A susbstantial majority? A simple majority. Some fringe element? Just the Joint Chiefs of Staff? The Marines but not the Army, Navy and Air Force? And when did you poll the "many"? 1000 years ago or last week? I'm sick and tired of the bashing of Christian's because of the sins of a few--or the sins of 1000 years ago. I'm not even religious although I was brought up Roman Catholic and I can't stand anti-religious fanatics generalizing about my religion because of what some fringe fundamentalists believe. And I'm talkng about he fringe too, because as much as I'm not a fan of any fundamentalism, I don't believe the vast majority of fundamentalists "support" war. Let's not look at the Crudades. Gulf War 2 was about buildings getting knocked down and an ideal, not religion. That W checked in with Jesus as his last advisor doesn't offend me because I don't believe religion was W's true impetus for going to war. Gulf War 1 was about oil, not religion. Viet Nam, Korea, the "Cold War"--those were about ideals--not religion. World War II, World War I? Not religious wars. Let's stick to the last 100 years before we start generalizing about how many Christians support war. Sorry I called you an asshat, you're entited to you opinion but when you generalize and then indict Chrisitanity because you're anti-religion, you come off as somewhat of an asshat. Apologies. _
I do not mean the vast majority by "many". I didn't know the exact numbers, hence why I said many. Tens of thousands easily. Here's a clue. Put on Fox news and listen to how many of them talk (or have talked in the past) about how going to war is a good thing, or invading Iran or Syrian or a myriad of other positions that involve invasions of middle eastern countries. Here's an article based on a poll taken right before the Iraq war started. http://www.commondreams.org/headlines02/1010-02.htm I'm not bashing Christians, I'm stating the facts. Some of them support war. Not all of them, but a good amount of them. People do not like hearing the truth. You are confusing the arguments because they are 2 very different ones. One argument is about Christians today supporting war. The other one is about religion being a primary cause in several conflicts (including the war on terror). Christianity has been around for 2000 years, I have every right to bring up religiously inspired conflicts from that time period to back the 2nd argument. This is from a gallop poll. Funny how Protestants, Catholics, Jews and Mormans are more likely to think innocent civilian casualties are justified, more than atheists and much moreso than Muslims. How is this possible when empathy is written directly into their doctrine? From the same poll, this one specifically references targeting civilians rather than collateral damage. Interesting numbers there. See, I'm not just making this up. IMO no Christian should EVER support war OR the demise of innocent people, but this poll clearly shows otherwise. 25% qualifies as "many" to me. I'm not trying to be a dick here, just showing you that I'm not making this stuff up as a few people have suggested or that I don't know what I'm talking about. Also you might be interested to know that I was born and raised Roman Catholic as well. I highly respect the teaching of Jesus, but I'm agnostic now.
Muslims are going to be very anti-violence against civilians compared to other groups at this point because Muslims have been getting slaughtered by the tens of thousands a year by governments, by individuals and by groups for more than a decade now. This poll is like asking Europeans about whether war is a good way to resolve political conflicts in 1948. You'd have gotten an overwhelming "NO!" out of them at that point because millions of them had been slaughtered in two wars that most of them didn't start and didn't want.
Nice. You don't want to generalize about what a war-mongering religion Christianity is, but your first instance is to offer up Fox News' perspective of how war mongering all of Christendom is. Got it. _
This is why I didn't respond to your original post. It has absolutely nothing to do with any point in any of my responses. You are a joke and are trying to sensationalize my position while being extremely defensive. All of Christendom? I said that? I guess this is how lawyers nitpick people. They focus on one single line out of multiple paragraphs and quote mine it. If 69% of Christian conservatives supported the war, then yeah, chance are, some of them are appearing on Fox News. This isn't rocket science and I wasn't using FoxNews as the be all end all. Try reading all the way through something before getting so emotional. I'm too lazy to post a giant ROFL picture right now, but it's there in spirit. I swear. Don't fear the truth or feel a need to defend yourself from it. It is what it is. I'm not telling you anything you don't already know.
Christian's didn't start either of the Gulf/Iraq Wars, so taking a poll and asking them, especially after they saw their buildings knocked down and 3000 US citizens killed is not the most temperate time to do so. Christian's don't lay awake at night dreaming up wars they can start or somehow get involved in. That some may defend the use of force doesn't mean they are all starting pep rallies to circumvent peace. Sometimes it's just a necessary--yet reactionary-- evil. We get it, you're anti-religion. No need to bash Christians. _
You've gone from "many" to 10s of thousands. Of the 100 million Christians in the United States, 10s of thousands define what you think of Christians. You, sir, are the joke. _
Stop trolling. 69% of christian conservatives is well more than tens of thousands. I was being generous with a low ball estimate, and NO that doesn't define what I think of Christians as a whole. LEARN TO READ.
I know how to read, and how to interpret. You're anti-religion and a Christian basher. That's fine, you should just go with it. _
I was away for the weekend so I didn't see this. Nice to see others seeing Barcs for the fool that he is. _
I fought this for a long time because I enjoyed the self ownage, but this dude just constantly derails threads with pure nonsense and emotional childish behavior. He can't possibly win court cases, arguing like that, pigeonholing, exaggerating and getting that defensive. Don't bother responding to any more of my posts, Stokes. I won't see em. If any grown ups would like to discuss this topic, I'd be happy to, but you have to put emotions aside for this conversation or it will not work out well.
Aaaaaannnnddddd, Barcs and stokes join forces to ruin another thread. Almost as predictable as the Jews and the Arabs not playing nicely in the sandbox.
I discussed it with someone who has studied religions for three decades. According to him, the claims that the translations of the Quran are false and are considered "Al-Taqiyya", a lie.
What trolling? Your post claims you spoke to someone who studied religion for 3 decades as if that lends any credence to your prior posts, there are absolute loons who have studied religion for even longer. Do you really think your anonymous person validates anything? It's funny how those that troll the most seem to be the ones accusing others of trolling.
Completely my fault. I shouldn't have even entertained his notions. They aren't false, the language just reads a bit differently. The same issues are there with the bible. It's more about misinterpretation. Many of those quotes in the Qua'ran are actually written under the pretense that you are being attacked by "infidels." It justifies self defense but not actively going out and looking for infidels to kill.
Thanks dude. This is probably not going to be what you want to hear so I hope you don't take offense. If you think my points are wrong I am open to hearing why. I really would like to tell you that it is extremists who take the Koran out of context etc etc but I cannot say that. To be honest with you, my view on Islam is that it is a very violent and intolerant religion. Pretty much this: http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/quran/023-violence.htm http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages/AboutSite.htm I realize I am contradicting myself from my earlier posts defending all religion as peaceful. My initial view was that the Koran is a peaceful text that has been horribly twisted for evil but after reading some of it I see that explanation is not true. The Old Testament certainly has violence in it, but it is mostly historically contextual. http://seedbed.com/feed/violence-in-the-old-testament-starting-points/ The Koran on the other hand is open-ended in its call for violence. One of the links above cites that "every twelfth verse of [the Koran] either speaks to Allah's hatred for non-Muslims or calls for their death, forced conversion, or subjugation". This cannot be called a peaceful religion. From it's inception to modern times, the history of Islam is one of constant aggression and conquest. Christianity is constantly bashed for the Crusades and Inquisition yet the reality is that these events occurred in response to the Islamic aggression that threatened to envelope all of Europe/Christendom. http://gatesofvienna.blogspot.com/2010/02/crusades-response-to-islamic-aggression.html?m=1 Islam had conquered all of the Iberian peninsula and held it for hundreds of years, even controlling territories in France as late as 975. The Reconquista of Spain took about 700 years, the last of Islamic forces was not defeated until 1492. Islam ruled Crete from about 820-961 and Sicily from about 900-1060, with frequent raids as far north as Rome. Later the Ottoman Empire attempted to reoccupy this land. While they couldn't regain a foothold in Italy, they rapidly conquered the Balkans and were constantly pushing into Central Europe. A look at history shows centuries of defensive fighting by Christian nations against Islamic incursion spanning almost 1000 years. In light of this, one can not categorize the Christian counter attack into the Holy Lands as an aggressive act of unprovoked violence. Regardless, I recall watching an accredited documentary on the Crusades where they mention that hatred of these events is so deep that stories of these wars are still popular tales to be heard in Islamic markets and shops; tales which depict Westerners as a mortal enemy. I was really shocked when I heard this. The first crusade was in 1096. These stories are almost 1000 years old. I believe there are many tolerant and peaceful Muslims in the world but they are a minority in the face of a doctrine and culture of hatred.
