That in itself is the sad part. He's being compared (unfavorably) to a guy who's barely hanging on in this league himself.
You don't like when people say Nelson was better than Hill. That's why. Nelson does the little things better. He runs better routes, he high points the ball, he uses his body against the DB. Those things make him a far more reliable receiver and the reason he became Geno's go to receiver down the stretch.
I don't disagree with anything you're saying other then me "not liking" when people disagree. I Never once claimed Hill was better then Nelson last season, just that it was close productivity wise and Hill is a mountain of a man with nowhere to go but up. We've seen the top of the Nelson hill, and it's already peaked,.. pun intended. Young athletic freak with potential, or a veteran middle of the road possession WR toward the end of his career? There's a chance we're talking about our #4 ( maybe even #5 ) pass catcher here. Who would see limited snaps and have a lot of time to develop and grow.. and you all want to go with Nelson? I'm gonna pick the potential 10/10 times there with hopes that he continues to develop. If you disagree that's your own prerogative Seems like some of you guys would rather be on the "right" side of an argument then hold out some hope for young talent so the Jets can be a better team,.. Blows my mind.. And makes for a really depressing experience. I joined here because I live in patriot country NE and don't have many friendly people to talk Jets with ( who I'm obviously very passionate about )..... Not for this kind of petty name calling bullshit. I'll talk to pats fans if that's what I want. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Their production isn't close. You're basing this on numbers. I watched the games. Nelson was a much better player. And it wasn't even close. I'm not saying we should give up on Hill. What I'm saying is that there are no excuses for him playing the way he's been playing for 2 years. Measurable's are nice and all but if Hill never pans out then what? I'd take the middle of pack receiver that is a proven NFL player. The only thing keeping Hill in the league is his age and the idea of his upside and him flipping a switch and becoming good.
production = stats? I don't understand how else you would measure production. I understand stats are not the end all for a players evaluation and if you look at their body of work from last year Nelson was absolutely a better WR. But he didn't "produce" all that much more then Hill, ( 1td to 2 Tds, 24 catches to 32 catches ) . he just looked better doing it. If a guy qwerty's into the end zone 15 times in a season you'd say he produced, but wasn't good. Also insinuating that I don't watch the games and just look at stats afterwards to form an opinion is asinine. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Hill had 75% of the receptions, 50% of the TDs and fewer yards than Nelson while having more snaps. I don't know how anyone watching last season or reading a stat line could think Hill was as productive or as good as Nelson. Please tell us more about his potential and measurables. Is he up to 6' 6" yet?
Bro Geno Smith threw for more yards than Nick Foles. But would you say Geno was more "productive" than Foles? Nelson was more productive because when he played he made more of a positive impact than Hill. Hill disappeared way too much between games. I made that comment because there's no way anyone can watch the Jets last year and say Nelson and Hill were close to being equally productive.
If you put all their stats next to one another you would see the difference in production from Geno and Foles. Hill/Nelson's stats across the board are similar. Nelson was more helpful to our team towards the end of last season because he got us a lot more first downs playing a possession WR role. But I wouldn't say either of them produced. 40 catches and 2 TDs in a season isn't producing. Unless your a FB Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Your bolded sentences are way over the top. Neither you, nor any of the rest of us has a crystal ball and can produce the future. It's fair to say that you don't think he will ever amount to anything, but not to state it as if it's a given fact. It isn't. I agree that Hill should never have been drafted. I was totally against taking him, and about had a stroke when Tanny traded up for him, but that's why I hated Tanny almost from the start. He is an arrogant idiot that had no business being the GM of an NFL franchise. Hill is still on the team for good reason. You can't coach or teach his speed and height combo. He's still young and cheap, and the Jets would gain nothing by cutting him during the offseason or even now. They need to try to make every effort to get something out of him. Missing on a 2nd round pick, especially one you traded up for sets you back. If he doesn't show anything in OTAs and TC, then fine, they may cut him, but they may hold onto him during the season to give him every last chance to contribute. It was a known fact that he was gonna be a project and you don't take projects in the 2nd round, much less trade up for them. You also don't play them their rookie season and expect to get anything out of them. It was then stupid of the Jets to play him so much his rookie season when he should have been sitting on the bench. The only reason he played so much that season and this past season is because Tanny had ignored the WR position with the exception of Kerley and a bunch of UDFAs and late round picks, and the WR cupboard was bare. Holmes should never have been re-signed after the one season rental. Tanny's counting on Holmes precluded him from addressing the position in the draft, and he couldn't address it in FA, because he had screwed the cap up. I think the Jets will probably only keep 6, maybe 7 WRs, but possibly only 5. Decker and Kerley are locks to make the team. IMO you can probably add Nelson to that group, although if all 3 rookies have a great TC and Hill has an excellent camp, Nelson could be the odd man out. Shaq or Enunwa could conceivably give the Jets what Nelson gives them, with Evans having the potential to be a solid #2 WR. For that matter, Amaro could give the same type of catches as Nelson with some probably YAC. Saunders will probably be the PR and Kerley's backup if he makes it through TC without getting injured. Hill is the only real burner in the group. If he can offer that to the team this season, even as the #4 or #5 WR, I imagine they'll hold onto him to give him every possible chance to succeed.
That's the thing you're not getting. No one is asking our receivers to be all pros. We just want NFL caliber players at the position, who is able to produce. The expectations were pretty low. We'd be singing a different tune if Hill gave us what Nelson did last year.
All of this talk is exactly that until proven otherwise on the field. I don't think Hill will suddenly morph into Terrell Owens but any improvement at all would be welcome. I don't see the team keeping all the marginal Wr's that were on the roster last year and if Hill is a casualty, so be it. You can't miss what you never had and Hill really hasn't contributed anything to the offense. Not even being a viable decoy. If he and Clyde Gates are still on the roster, it will be a miracle. At any rate, this is Hill's make or break year. If he doesn't show more than he has so far, he's gotta go.
The only thing I want to hear from Hill is a football hitting him in the hands, and hit the weight room a bit too, he seems like he's another Polamalu hit away from retirement.
This is what I was mentioning in the other post - you can't defend Stephen Hill when Nelson who came in at the middle of the season, out-performed and led to Hill's benching. Hill had all of the time in the world to work with Geno, and it just appears Geno generated chemistry with Nelson rather quickly, much quicker then Stephen Hill. Stephen Hill may have been more harm then good for Geno.
Yes he did, But they play entirely different roles and are at entirely different parts of their career. I think Hills benching was more splitting time until he was put on the IR. Also, Hill was injured and limited during a majority of TC while trying to learn his second system in 2 years. He was also getting thrown balls from both Sanchez and Smith and then Didn't get much time with Smith until the season started. All of this time you're talking about was time Hill needed to refine his craft, instead he's spent a good chunk of it rehabbing and introducing himself to his coaches / QBs. Nelson didn't rely so much on chemistry as he did on the fact that he has a large body / catch radius and is better suited to play the slot then Hill is where Geno was much more comfortable throwing Nelson is more of a finished product so it's not surprising to me he was able to "plug and play" into our WCO.
It's one thing to say Hill was drafted too early, but to say all this nonsense about how he'll never amount to anything and he's already a bust is silly. Never say never. In the Sparano offense, Hill was on the same page with Sanchez most of the time. He just had way too many drops. In the MM system, he never quite got on the same page with Geno, who was a very raw rookie, much like Hill the previous year, but he did have much less drops. The oline was hideous and Geno took half the season just to get comfortable. I'm not blaming all of that on all on Hill. Deep shots don't happen without a sturdy oline and that's what he was brought in to do. In 2 seasons he had to learn 2 different systems, with 2 different QBs, both of whom had bottom of the league production. I'm certainly not ready to give up on Hill.
I would say that Nelson performed admirably considering the circumstances. He was coming off an ACL and joined the team for the 5th game of the system -- new teammates, new system, no training camp. I think with a full, healthy off-season and now being familiar with the offense, we could expect 50-60 catches for about 600 yards from him. He runs solid routes and has reliable hands, 2 things that separate him from Hill.
He had 1 more drop then Hill last season on the same number of targets but yea, He definitely runs solid routes. He is a big body / target for the slot and most of his grabs are over the middle and immediately getting tackled ( or going to the ground while making the catch ). Unfortunately for him ( fortunately for us ) barring any injury we have 2 players that now do this better then him ( Amaro and Decker ). It would be hard for him to reach that number mostly based on the limited playing time I see him getting this season compared to last. He will essentially be our 4th pass catcher if he's able to establish any full time role for himself( right now I think he's a backup to / insurance for Decker ). Decker/Nelson > Kerley/Sanders > Amaro/Cumberland > ?? ( Do we want Nelson in this role? Hill/Evans/Fill-In-Burner-Here )?
