Vlad Ducasse was the highest drafted player from UMass since the merger. The last guy taken in any round before him was a 5th rounder in 1999. The guy before that was a 10th round kicker in 1980. When I heard the pick the first thing I thought was: this is why a GM never looks at his alma mater unless 5 guys in the organization are demanding he look at the guy.
Ducasse was being projected as a 2nd/3rd rounder coming into the draft. Some even had him as late 1st. I remember him getting a lot of love at the Senior Bowl from Mayock. I hated the pick because he was a "known project" that our roster at the time could not afford to take on, but he was not a reach to be fair.
What does that even mean? Rex signs flashy players and Idzik signs regular Free Agents?[/quote]I was being a ass. Just for the record I think it 99% signing is Idzik. If players don't pan out it 100% on Idzik. That is his job... Does Rex get some say so? I'm sure he does,but Idzik gets the final say so.
Why on earth would you think something as logical as that? This is the Jets! Woody Johnson is the evil puppeteer who signs players for media attention, and Rex Ryan secretly controls Idzik's every move behind the scenes(except when it has to with offense!).
All great points. I wasn't sure on the amount of comp picks, but I knew it was a couple. We definitely had enough regular picks trade up slightly, I would have still been against a large trade up I think.
Fair enough, and I concur with your point about the draft. Call it different results. My focus however, was different, it was more about the philosophy and strategy of the GM. Idzik believes in building thru the draft first and foremost not so with Tanny, who pushed free agency and mortgaged way to many picks to get us there fast. I did not mean to imply Idzik would not consider trading up or down at the draft. Trades are parts of the draft methodology and another tool in the GMs arsenal. But when your primary objective is to build thru the draft picks become much more important. It's not something you trade away readily without understanding the down stream effects and you push hard for good value and do not over reach ( in Idzik's case who knows, he might even be a little too stingy) From my view point, I felt time and time again we over reached and over traded picks under the prior regime with less than stellar results, some moves right down driven more by seat selling than improving the football team. I feel far more confident that with Idzik it will not happen. Picks will be valued dearly and traded only when it totally benefits this football team.
I am with you on this one because the only reason why we are not all over Idzik is two fold. 1. We have not had enough time to see his picks develop although it looks good for Richardson so far, jury is still out on Geno and Milliner, you cannot call Bohanan a hit because he was the only FB on the roster as well as Campbell and Aboushi who did not see a snap and time will tell with them. 2. Idzik took absolutely no risks by trading up in order to get a better value pick, he did trade a 4th for Ivory which turned out to be good value. In summary, being patient and conservative with a cap budget and draft picks does not equal professionalism, it equals someone who is trying to do more with less instead of making big splashes ala Trader Mike.
Of course he'll have busts, but some picks are not good gambles and I don't think Ducasse and Stephen Hill were good gambles based on the fact that they were picked in the 2nd round. They didn't seem like good gambles at the times of the picks.
Peyton and Brees I could see as flashy but not Tebow. Tebow is as mundane to watch as anyone I've seen. I think flashy as the big exciting plays. Maybe the definitions differs from person to person. Even Peyton is a little robotic in the way he plays but he's such a big part of so many big plays it hards to call him not flashy.
I see what you're saying. I also feel that flashy can mean the guys that like to show off or taunt or excessively celebrate. Kind of like how Holmes always did the ball dropper after a first down. Tebow definitely wasn't a flashy player, but off the field he had a flashy personality.
Everybody wants to talk about how Hill & Ducasse were "projects" that shouldn't have went till at least round 4. And yes..in retrospect they WERE projects. The thing about both of them is..if the Jets hadn't had taken them in the 2nd round, someone else soon after would have. Both had elite level upside. The kind of upside that doesn't last beyond round 2 or so. If you wanna make an argument that the Jets should stay away from those types..that's valid..but these weren't prospects with starter type ceilings..both had all pro type ceilings for various reasons. The contrast to this is a pick like Victor Hobson was. He was pretty much plug & play from day 1 of his rookie season. Sure it took Herm half the season to realize that Mo Lewis was too slow to play 3 downs in his cover 2 & that Hobson was a better option..but from day 1 he was ready to contribute. The down side? He never developed. He had no ceiling. At the end of his career he was a completely average player.The same calibur he was as a rookie. My point is there is no easy answer to picking prospects. I remember a time when folks were fed up with draft picks like Hobson,Derrick Strait & Erik Coleman b/c they lacked elite athleticism needed to take the next step beyond just getting on the field.At that point in time, people on this board would have KILLED for a physical specimen like the above mentioned on draft day. It goes both ways.
I think the main point is that when your 2nd and 3rd round picks have so often been busts, not developing into long-term starters or stars something is wrong with your talent evaluation process. 2001 - Lamont Jordan, Kareem McKenzie 2002 - John McGraw, Chris Baker 2003 - Victor Hobson, B.J. Askew 2004 - Derrick Strait 2005 - Mike Nugent, Justin Miller, Sione Pouha 2006 - Kellen Clemens, Anthony Schlegel, Eric Smith 2007 - David Harris 2008 - Blank 2009 - Shonn Greene 2010 - Vladimir Ducasse 2011 - Kenrick Ellis 2012 - Stephen Hill, DeMario Davis Come on, you can't tell me that's not a really crappy list of players to have drafted in the 2nd and 3rd round. I look at that list and I think that's the primary reason the Jets haven't won a Super Bowl in the last 13 years. You have to get stars out of your early picks and the Jets have drafted so much dreck in those rounds. You notice how Tanny only used both his 2nd and 3rd round picks once from 2007 on? That's what you do when you don't trust the list of players sitting there for you to choose from.
Kareem solid tackle in NFL for many years Jordan- never made it on own but was an excellent compliment to Curtis Hobson- below avg starter Askew- below avg starter Strait- bust Nugent- very good K Miller- good STer Pouha- pro bowl caliber player Clemens- bust Schlegel- bust Smith- solid safety, good STer Harris- pro bowl caliber Greene- see Lamont Ducasse- bust too early on the last few years overall not a terrible list but obviously not a great one.
4 busts, 2 below avg starters and 2 STers out of 12 Day 2 picks in the draft is closer to terrible than it is great.
If they are starting only because the guys behind them suck even worse, is that really an accomplishment?
to compare: NE 2001-2012: 2001: Matt Light(excellent), Brock Williams(bust) 2002: Deion Branch- solid 2003: Eugene Wilson- below avg, bethel Johnson- bust 2004: Marquise Hill- bust, Guss Scott- bust 2005: Ellis Hobbs- below avg, Nick Kaczur- below avg 2006: Chad Jackson-bust, David Thomas- bust 2007: none 2008: Terrance Wheatley- bust, Shawn Crable- bust, Kevin O'Connell- bust 2009: Patric Chung- below avg, Ron Brace- bust, Darius Butler- below avg, Sebastian Vollmer- good, Brandon tate- STer, Tyrone McKenzie- bust 2010: Gronk- HR, Jermaine Cunningham- bust, Brandon Spikes- avg, Taylor Price- bust 2011-12: still a little early.
