Cooks over Beckam Jr all day

Discussion in 'Draft' started by GriffDog, Apr 28, 2014.

  1. Br4d

    Br4d 2018 Weeb Ewbank Award

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    None of the guys you listed were #2's. Of the complimentary receivers you listed who were drafted #1 only one guy made his team happy, that being the guy drafted by the team with Peyton Manning. Holmes, Ginn Jr and Moss all were out of town within 4 years of the pick, and due to the action of the team that drafted them.

    Look up Terry Glenn in 1995 and Odell Beckham Jr in 2013 and figure out the difference yourself. It's not hard at all.
     
  2. laxin

    laxin Active Member

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    Ive watch as much "film" as anyone on this site... especially the WR's. I dont just say things that I havent concluded from watching these players play. ODB is not a mediocre WR.
     
  3. laxin

    laxin Active Member

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    True. The media is just adjusting their boards to what they are hearing from personnel men, which then causes this perceived rise of players, and this case Beckham up the board. He's been there all along, and for a reason.

    Why will Beckham and Cruz not share any qualities? How can you even say that?

    And off the top of my head, last year 2 WRs who were #2's were drafted in the first round and showed capable talent (Patterson and Hopkins). Also, once again, Beckham might not have been the "#1" simply due to LSU's offensive scheme.
     
  4. laxin

    laxin Active Member

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    What would you call Landry and Beckham? You sound so confident declaring Landry an unquestioned #1, yet he only had 41 more yards.

    It seems like Landry and Beckham fit under "complimentary receivers and neither dominated", and thats mostly because LSU's limited passing offense. If you put this tandem at Baylor and they combine for 3000 yards. It seems like you are using this "#2" narrative to fit your argument especially when both should fit into your above statement.
     
  5. 74

    74 Well-Known Member

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    First, Cooks is in a class by himself.

    So Beckham is fast with a 4.43 but Campanaro is slow with a 4.46 and Ellington is nowhere near with a 4.45? OK. By the way, Lee is slower than all these guys with a 4.52.

    Campanaro missed a couple games due to broken bones and Ellington had a bad hamstring to start the season so lets look at per game output using the data from when they actually played

    7.9 receptions, 76.3 rec. yards, 0.60 rec. TDs = 2012 Campanaro

    8.4 receptions, 100.3 rec. yards, 0.75 rec. TDs = 2013 Campanaro

    8.3 receptions, 92.3 yards, 0.75 TDs (+1 passing TD) = 2013 Campanaro vs BC, Clemson, Maryland, Miami, Fla

    4.8 receptions, 93.1 rec. yards, 0.66 rec. TDs = 2013 Beckham

    4.2 receptions, 63.2 rec. yards, 0.00 TDs per game = 2013 Beckham vs Ala, Aub, Ga, Fla, Texas A&M

    5.2 receptions, 71.9 rec. yards, 0.36 rec. TDs = 2013 Lee

    4.7 receptions, 74.5 yards, 0.80 TDs = 2013 Ellington

    Campanaro's production is better and he actually showed up against good teams, something Beckham couldn't do. Both Camp and Ellington have high agility, 40 times almost as good, better vertical's, and 20 and 15 reps on bench respectively compared to Beckham's poor 7. So I think Ellington is somewhere near them, and I think indeed Campanaro could at least be a scab on Beckham or Lee's ass if he wanted to. So why is it nuts? cuz espn told you so? what I think is nuts is spending a first round selection on a player that is at best equal right now to a player that's considered easily had in the fourth round.
     
  6. Br4d

    Br4d 2018 Weeb Ewbank Award

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    Hopkins was Clemson's #1 in 2010 and 2012. He was #2 in 2011, when he "only" caught 72 balls. He got drafted off a year where he had 82 catches for 1,405 yards and 18 TD's.

    I just don't understand where you can't see how pitiful OBJ's production actually was against the SEC. Les Miles isn't a big passing guy and that's fine. When you have a WR who start for 3 years for you and only catches TD passes in 2 games against SEC competition that's not because you're conservative. It's because the guy can't create the opportunities to score when he's actually running routes on the football field.

    Patterson I'll give you, but Patterson was a freaky prospect with a rare size and speed combo in a draft that was pretty weak at WR. He had one year at a major college and he came out after the single season. It's not clear he's going to be a good player in the NFL at this point.

    This a is a strong draft at WR. Taking the guy who hasn't shown the ability to make plays over the rest of the field is just insane.
     
  7. Br4d

    Br4d 2018 Weeb Ewbank Award

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    Both of the complimentary tandems above split the catches about 50/50. Both of them had years where they were #1 in catches and years where they were #2. Beckham is just #2 at LSU. That's the way his career read and that's the way it is going to continue in the NFL unless somebody has some kind of key to unlock what might be there. You don't look for guys who require a locksmith in round 1 of the NFL draft.
     
    74 likes this.
  8. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    I'm one of Cook's biggest fans on this site, so you don't need to tell me that he's in a class by himself, at least when compared to Ellington and Campanaro.
    You're making the comparison in 40 times, not me. Campanaro's 40 time may not be that far behind Beckham's but he doesn't play anywhere near as fast or as well as Beckham. Beckham is a threat to score from anywhere on the field and is a potential #1 WR. Campanaro isn't. I don't think Ellington is either. I view film and make my own decisions. I read and listen to what others say and consider it against what I see with my own eyes. I live in NC. Campanaro plays at WFU which is about 15 miles from where I live. South Carolina games have been shown on TV a lot. I've seen both and read about both in game reports.

    Stats don't tell the whole story, either.
     
  9. 74

    74 Well-Known Member

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    Yes. Now, it would be nice if he actually did it against a good team.

    Neither do the eyes.

    I agree that Beckham has potential to be a #1 WR. The problem is that he's done nothing to show that he will be. You don't spend a first round pick on a player like that.
     
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  10. laxin

    laxin Active Member

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    Please just stop comparing numbers between these players. Comparing Hopkins numbers at Clemson to Beckham at LSU just doesnt work well. Different competition, offensive schemes and philosophy...

    As far as the production against SEC competition
    ...

    In 9 games vs SEC opponents, Mettenberger averaged only 14 completions on 22 attempts and 217 yards per game. Over those 9 games Beckham average 80 yards and 4-5 catches. Thats 37% of the offensive passing yards production. For reference Sammy Watkins consisted of 38% of Clemsons passing production, and Mike Evans 34% and Cooks 38% and DeAndre Hopkins 34% for reference. Also Mettenberger only had 10 TDs over those 9 games. When your QB is barely averaging over 1 TD per game, its hard to produce them as a WR.

    When you put the numbers in context, its funny how skewed they can be without it. Im not saying his numbers a great, but they are far less terrible than you make them out to be. (This is also without mentioning his production in the return game)
     
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  11. laxin

    laxin Active Member

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    Beckham makes big catch after big catch in the 4th quarter here as well. Couldve had a TD +30 more yards if Mett was accurate enough to hit him open on a post. Beckham can be "clutch" when given the opportunity. I havent seen many plays where he's actually covered.
     
  12. All Gas No Shake

    All Gas No Shake Well-Known Member

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    exactly, its all about context

    people act like cooks far and away out produced beckham but they both accounted for the same percentage of their teams passing yards

    id be happy with cooks, obj, or lee
     
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  13. WW85

    WW85 MOCKERATOR
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    I think Laxin and You brought up an excellent point, they are only so many yards to go around.

    Beckham and Landry took yards from each other, they're complimentary receivers. Beckham gets the higher rating, not based on Stats or production, but based on measurables and his explosive play. I' said this before and some may disagree, of the two LSU receivers, Landry could have the better NFL career based on the team and system that drafts him.

    Talking about Cooks and Lee, look up Cook's 2013 stats and Lee's 2012 Stats, almost identical.
     
    #273 WW85, May 7, 2014
    Last edited: May 7, 2014
  14. Don

    Don 2008 TGG Rich Kotite "Least Knowledgeable" Award W

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    Odell Beckham Jr., wide receiver, LSU: "If Sammy Watkins weren't in this draft, Beckham would be the top receiver. I think he's better than [Mike] Evans. ... He's a helluva prospect. He has size, speed, separation ability, route running. He can be an inside-outside guy. He has good to very good potential. He excites me. If I had him, I'd feel very good about the future of the position. You can move him around; he has versatility. He operates like an NFL receiver. He's NFL-ready. ... He's a pretty clean kid. No problems with his work ethic. This kid can play."

    http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/je...ect?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

    So says some anonymous personnel director....
     
  15. nyjunc

    nyjunc 2008 TGG Bryan Cox "Most Argumentative" Award Winn

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    if he becomes a Jet I like hearing this:

    Jay Glazer‏@JayGlazer May 5
    Every yr, i poll GMs asking who greatest kid in the draft is. Not player but kid. Name mentioned most this yr? Oregon State WR Brandin Cooks
     
  16. WW85

    WW85 MOCKERATOR
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    Odell Beckham is a great Kid too. Very well spoken and comes from a solid background.
     
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  17. Don

    Don 2008 TGG Rich Kotite "Least Knowledgeable" Award W

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    Hopefully one of the 3 of Beckham, Cooks or Ebron can be taken at 18 but they probably will move up a little (not into the top 10) to take whomever their target is.
     
  18. Don

    Don 2008 TGG Rich Kotite "Least Knowledgeable" Award W

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    Not that it matters but his father also played at LSU and his mother was a NCAA track star on two title teams at LSU as well.
     
  19. WW85

    WW85 MOCKERATOR
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    If I remember correctly his Dad was a RB in the late 80's.
     
  20. All Gas No Shake

    All Gas No Shake Well-Known Member

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