They are nothing a like on the field and in terms of their measurables. They are completely different players and ODB possesses all the of the qualities Stephen Hill lacks- ability to attack the ball, versatility, route running, durability, hands, and smoothness. The only reason people here mention the two in the same sentence is because Stephen Hill made them scared bitches that cant handle the thought of an athletic WR that didnt put up 1600 yards. Thats the only reason. Their play is entirely different and the way they are used are just as dissimilar. There is a very valid reason that pretty much everyone outside of this forum loves the player and why he is being talked about as a top 15 pick that probably wont make it to 18. Sure thing.
One quality he doesn't have is the ability to show up in big games. I myself, never wanted Stephen Hill because I saw Rueben Randle beast it against 3 straight SEC defenses in 2011. His production isn't all that great, but the kid showed up. And he's been showing up for the Giants. Look at the Marqise Lee game against Stanford last season, injured - still hauled in big passes to upset Stanford. We need that guy that comes in big games and produces. Lee did it in college, he'll do it in the pros. Beckham has never showed up in a big SEC game cept for the Georgia game. 18 seconds in, beastly catch. Stanford had an excellent defense. That kid went to work on Stanford and he was prob at 70%. This isn't about Beckham vs Lee - it's all about producing in the bright spots.
it sure seems like the Jets prefer Beckham to Cooks. with reports of them being interested in trading up and I saw something today that Beckham won't make it to 18, if the Jets really want him the'd have to trade up.
I don't see how you cannot be on board with Marquis Lee! Did you see how he pushed the pile for extra yardage?? Lee is maybe not as fast as Cooks (who is also a good pick) but he taller and more physical. Chip Kelly and Eagles are ready to grab him according to Philly Sports stations. Good post...plenty of clutch receivers out there not named OBJ
To me it's pretty simple, the FO either believes in Lee and drafts him assuming none of the dream picks fall, or they don't and go for BPA at OL/CB/OLB/FS depending on who is there. Cooks might work out ok but he's too far from a prototypical #1 to be confident in that pick and OBJ has too many question marks at 18. Plenty of opportunity to trade up in the 2nd or 3rd and add both a good WR and TE with those picks, meanwhile being sure to shore up a unit with your premium #1 pick. Idzik should either believe in Lee or look elsewhere.
Couldn't stomach the Jets coveting OBJ, like you said, shore up a position with your number 1 pick. Pick Fuller, Pryor, or Dennard whoever you graded highest and sleep better knowing you covered some of the bases.
What question marks does Beckham have in his game? In my mind he has some of the least question marks in the entire draft. That simply isnt what scouting is. For QB's, yes the "clutch" factor is certainly a major area because they typically control the outcome. The same can not be said for a WR. Larry Fitzgerald was one of the most clutch WR's when he had Warner throwing to him. The past 3 years he's been reeeeeal quiet. He hasnt lost any talent, the things he cant control are determining his stats and overall affect. Its like an interception- the pick on the stat sheet doesnt tell you if the coordinator schemed the play perfectly, or if the pressure generated caused a poor throw, or even if the receiver slipped and fell... Now Im not professional scout at all, and Ive only been studying the draft for about 5 years, but I can at least differentiate what the stats say and what the tape says [generally]. You think its some odd coincidence that Beckham may very well be a top 15 pick and many teams are said to love him, yet if the draft was held here he wouldnt even be a first round pick? Teams and evaluators care more about whats on tape- the numbers are just a piece of the pie as Terry Bradway said. Also, Im not saying I dont like Lee, because I would be happy with him at 18 (but I do think he is only the #5 WR in the draft).
Why would you prefer Calvin Pryor to Beckham? And how wouldnt picking a top 3 WR in the draft not sure up a position?
Really tried to open up to Beckham the past few days, just looked at some of the draft tape on that website (really good footage). I just can't. This is the impression I get about Beckham... - Inconsistent. - Rarely have I seen highlights or anything where he goes over the middle. Is he scared to go over the middle? - I don't think he's a physical receiver. I think he will struggle against physical corners. What I see is a player that isn't very reliable. He's got some things that you really like [Speed, vertical game] but I'm more into physical receivers that want to get their hands dirty. I learned some decent things this off-season about what scouts do. It appears production isn't a big deal on their end at all. It's all about the measurements, their potential. Fitzgerald has been going through a phase with some bad QBs, but he still is one of the best pass-catchers ever to play the game (Cris Carter of course is #1 far and beyond). The production has dipped but he can still dominate. I want a receiver that plays big when the game is on the line, I just go back to that Lee vs Stanford tape and see in the 4th qtr making catches, blocking, he's amped up ready to play, he's having fun out there going up against Ed Reynolds and Skov (ILB). The kid is giving it his all on every snap - it's the little things like that. I really like that about Lee and his NFL potential. I just don't have same feeling about Beckham - he's flashy he's fast but can he go over the middle for that crucial 3rd down grab? Lee's game is reliable - to me that's the word of the off-season, we need reliable targets to help Geno Smith. Lee is as QB friendly as it gets. Scouts, GMs - they miss too. Ted Ginn Jr was suppose to be the next big thing from OSU, he was a top 10 pick. Numbers aren't as important, I understand that now - but you can't dismiss them you know? 2012, Lee was the best receiver in the nation - he goes through some bumps and bruises now he's 5th? I think Lee is the 2nd best receiver in the draft next to Watkins. They have been battling for 2 years now to be called the best receiver in the nation. I can't dismiss what I saw in 2012. I just want a receiver that is reliable that we can count on that's all.
YES. He isnt asked to go over the middle, eh? You know why? You have the best slot receiver in the nation with the strongest hands in college also on the team. Jarvis Landry is a hell of a player in his own right, and his skill set was better utilized in tight spaces because he isnt a fast guy that will get a ton of separation. This is what Im talking about with LSU's offense. Beckham was clearly asked to be the intermediate/deep threat because he was able to and it allowed Landry to be used in his role. This is the exact type of receiver this offense lacks. We dont need a WR who can go over the middle because Decker is strong enough to do it, and Kerley is a great slot WR. This offense needs a WR that can run routes 10-20 yards down field and be a threat on every play. Also, I think more of the inconsistency deals with how he was used and the QB position, because Beckham did his job consistently IMO. IMO, Lee is the opposite of reliable... he has an injury history and doesnt have reliable hands. He dropped something like 10-12% of passes which is a lot for a 1st round pick. He doesnt consistently get open which is very important, but I think Beckham and Cooks do as well. Once again, I would be happy with Lee and agree with the sentiment that he shows passion and a love for the game, but I think Beckham just has better tape.
If he's so great, why was he the 2nd option behind a guy that is going to be drafted late in the 2nd round of the very same draft? Why was his production middling at best and behind that other receiver for the last two years?
I'm very much on board with Lee, however I took away something different from that play. Lee wasn't pushing the pile, there were 4 defenders surrounding him keeping him from going down and trying to get the ball away from him. That they couldn't do that was pretty amazing. Look at the guys around him fighting for the ball and he just keeps leaning forward and eventually he gets down. If you could design a drill like that no WR would be willing to run it more than once.
So let me get this straight because you have a slot receiver you can't go over the middle? Marty loves using crossing routes so Beckham is going to fail with the Jets right from the get-go if we are using this as an example. Now that we are using stats (drop %) we should also account for him being injured (and still producing and playing hard), and the QB issue as well. When he had a good QB, the dude caught 112 passes and each time he touched the ball he was a threat to take it to the house because he made people miss. Cody Kessler was not that good for USC until late in the season when he got more PT in 2013. http://espn.go.com/blog/cleveland-browns/post/_/id/5150/draft-factoid-marqise-lees-dependability you cannot get more reliable then that.
The lack of production is a glaring question mark. If you take him in the 1st round you have to know that you can get more out of him than he produced at LSU. It's just not clear to me how anybody goes about the process of guaranteeing that a decent player at the college level will be a star in the NFL. It's like you have to have an ego transplant ready to go for the guy because the guy he used to be just isn't going to be a big star at the next level.
I prefer Lee over Beckham. Beckham appears too finesse. I agree physical press corners in the NFL may eat him for lunch.
I never said Beckham couldnt go over the middle. I said Jarvis Landry did it more because he was the primary slot receiver and that was his strength. Beckham still ran crossing routes.... Also, I highly doubt DeSean Jackson went across the middle often and Marty knew had to use him. Kessler was pretty bad, I wont argue that... And I wont argue against Lee's production- never will. Lee was one of the most productive receivers and I think he will be a good WR in the NFL but what I see is that Beckham is a better player than Lee with better attributes. I have no say in what the Jets do so for now Im going to trust my eyes. Its worked relatively well for me so far I think. Thats a great stat.
Once again, I dont mean to get into this with you again... but the question was regarding his actual play (meaning his traits as a WR, not numbers, situation, ect). I dont need people reciting me stats, Id prefer to know what traits he lacks as a player or what traits wont translate to the next level. Also, Ive explained before that many of the best WRs in the NFL have outproduced their college stats.
Well this is just a matter of who you think is a top 3 WR in which I respectfully disagree about Beckham. Pryor,Dennard, and Fuller play on Defense and IMO are more of a value than getting an overrated WR like OBJ. Plus, CB is a team weakness. Someone is not doing his job over at the FO or else this is a BS rumor. Have you checked out film on Beckham? You should, he is a mediocre receiver. I think it's about money. Evans and Watkins want more $ so Idzik gets a supposed blue chip receiver, Beckham for less. Does this sound familiar?
Another impressive thing about Cooks is he's only 20 years old and will be when the season starts. This kid's going to have a long, productive prime barring injuries.
