Are You SURE You REALLY Want Sanchez Off The Jets ??

Discussion in 'New York Jets' started by JetsKickAss, Dec 23, 2013.

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  1. Ajitator

    Ajitator Well-Known Member

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    This... If nothing more then just curiosity. I see the system Marty runs and I feel like Mark might actually have a chance to excel.

    Shottys shifts and moving people around doesn't play to Sanchez' strengths and it was noticeable how they clashed ( the system / skills not the people ). It was not coincidence that mark has so many 4th quarter come backs in that system. When he played loose from behind he got into rhythm and won games.

    I would say considering sporanos' system an actual nfl offense is an insult to football



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  2. legler82

    legler82 Well-Known Member

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    I don't question Stafford's talent just his "greatness".

    There are degrees of marginalization.

    Without itemizing my response, every single person on that list had better receiving talent than what Sanchez had to work with last year. At the same time I acknowledge that everyone of the QBs listed are, were or have been better than Sanchez up to this point of his career. Not every non Sanchez-hater is like Junc (no disrespect). I don't need defend his play or convince people who he is better than to make the argument for bringing him back at a reduced price to provide veteran competition for Geno.

    Side note: While I've seen enough to know that Sanchez will never be elite or even the tier below that, I'm still not convinced that he can't be a productive, efficient and "winning" QB. As long as I can get that, I don't need him to be a high draft pick in fantasy.
     
  3. Kentucky Jet

    Kentucky Jet Active Member

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    New York Jets Free Agency Primer (Quarterbacks)
    8
    By Dalbin Osorio. January 9, 2014





    With approximately $30-40 million in cap space, the New York Jets are pegged to be players when the new league year begins on March 3rd, 2013. Today, we look at free agent quarterbacks.


    It is no secret the Jets botched Mark Sanchez’s career here. Anointing Sanchez the starter from day one, with no competition to speak of, was one of many missteps the they made. It appears that the Jets have learned from their mistakes, as general Manager John Idzik stated that the Jets will look at improving the Quarterback position this off-season. Geno Smith showed flashes that he could be the franchise QB, so we’ll find out soon enough if it’s lip service. Let’s look at the 5 free agent QBs that could be brought in as a backup and potential competition for the Jets rookie QB.

    1. Matt Cassel, Vikings



    2013 Stats: 3-3 as a starter, 60% completion percentage, 1,807 yards, 11 TDs, 9 INTs

    Analysis: Cassel stepped in for former first round draft choice Christian Ponder and led the Vikings to a 3-3 record. Cassel had 2 game winning drives and 2 fourth quarter comebacks as the Vikings signal caller. His best game came against the Philadelphia Eagles in Week 14, where he completed 74.29% of his passes and threw for 382 yards.

    Likelihood: Cassel’s contract can be voided by the Vikings in February. As of now, let’s put the likelihood at a 6, but it could increase to a 7 if his contract is voided. Cassel would be a good fit in the West Coast offense, and he’s completed at least 58% of his passes for four straight seasons. He’d be a good mentor for Geno, and a guy that can step in if need be.

    2. Chad Henne, Jaguars



    2013 Stats: 4-9 as a starter, 60.6% completion percentage, 3,241 yards, 13 TDs, 14 INTs

    Analysis: Jets fans wanted Henne to be signed to push Mark Sanchez in 2012, but that never materialized. With the former Michigan Wolverine slated to become a free agent this off-season, Jets fans might finally get their wish. Henne had a string of 6 straight games this season where he completed at least 60% of his passes, and is only 28 years old. Chad has starting experience and has looked like Dan Marino a time or two against Rex’s defense.

    Likelihood: Chad Henne is an unrestricted free agent, but GM Dave Caldwell has said that Henne could be resigned before hitting free agency. With the Jaguars holding a top 5 pick in the NFL Draft and in prime position to draft their franchise signal caller, lets put this as an 6.

    3. Shaun Hill, Lions



    2013 Stats: None

    Analysis: Hill did not play all of 2013, as Matt Stafford remained relatively healthy and played all 16 games. However, in 2012 Hill stepped in and completed 10-13 passes for 172 yards and 2 TDs in relief of Stafford. Hill has a career 61.9 completion percentage and a 2:1 TD to INT ratio.

    Likelihood: Hill is an interesting case because it would seem that he would strictly be a veteran backup for the New York Jets. However, Hill does have part-time starting ability, is accurate with the football, and is able to fill in if needed. We’ll put this as a 5, because the Lions may resign Hill as Stafford’s backup.

    4. Tarvaris Jackson, Seahawks



    2013 Stats: 10-13, 76.9 completion percentage, 151 yards, 1 TD, 0 INTs

    Analysis: Jackson is a career 17-17 starter and has played in the playoffs before. A career 59.6 completion percentage along with good mobility and underrated accuracy makes Jackson another intriguing possibility. He’s played minimally over the last two seasons, so he’s got less wear and tear than most 30 year old QBs.

    Likelihood: Jets General Manager John Idzik was part of the Seattle front office that brought in Tarvaris Jackson to compete with Matt Flynn and Russell Wilson last year. Jackson showed good arm strength and accuracy in spot duty this year, so we’ll put this as a 7.

    5. Mike Vick, Eagles



    2013 Stats: 77-141, 54.61 completion percentage, 1,215 yards, 5 TDs, 3 INTs

    Analysis: Vick was named the Eagles starting QB for the Eagles, but lost his job to Nick Foles when he was injured in Week 5. Vick regained the job in Week 8 when Foles was hurt, but Foles regained his job after the game. Vick demonstrated the ability to still be a gamebreaker on offense, as he had an 8.2 yards per carry average. Vick, also, only threw 3 interceptions and had two fumbles lost as he admittedly put more effort on ball security. Vick has thrown for over 20,000 yards on his career and rushed for 5,500 yards. He has battled injuries as he hasn’t played 16 games in any of his seasons with the Eagles.

    Likelihood Vick is an unrestricted free agent and has expressed a desire to start in the NFL. Vick had his best season as a professional QB under Jets offensive coordinator Marty Mornhinweg in 2010, as he completed 62.63% of his passes and threw for 318 yards with 21 TDs and 6 INTs. Vick is familiar with Morningwheg, 33 years old, and may be looking for one more shot at a starting job. Because of these things, the likelihood is at a 7.

    If I Were A Betting Man…

    1. Michael Vick
    2. Tarvaris Jackson
    3. Chad Henne
    4. Matt Cassel
     
  4. legler82

    legler82 Well-Known Member

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    Now why is it so hard for some to believe the same could have been and may be still possible for Mark who is probably a more natural fit in the WCO? Note Vick completed just a shade over 50% of his passes prior to MM.
     
  5. alleycat9

    alleycat9 Well-Known Member

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    do you guys really think that if john idzik has any kind of authority that he is going to spend money to run into the almost guaranteed issues of rex and mark? i mean it would be the best thing he could do for rex to send sancho packing. i just dont see the gm setting that up to explode on him. .
     
  6. RobertTheJr

    RobertTheJr Member

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    Because 1) The grass is always greener 2) His last name isn't Sanchez 3) Vick has never had the talent that Mark has had and did much more 4a) Mark is the league's worst QB to ever start in consecutive years / ever 4b) No. It wasn't coaching or weapons. It was Mark. 5) Mark had [a] Jones Tomlinson [c] Greene who were undoubtedly unquestionable at their positions during their time with the NYJ and also in the ring of the league's best at that time 6) Mark has had some of the league's best offensive talent and actually sucked 7) Favre could have won the Superbowl [let alone made the playoffs] with the same or worse talent 8) General site IQ may be questionable
     
  7. displacedfan

    displacedfan Well-Known Member

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    Vick minimized his INT% to 1.6% that year which is 1.2 lower than his career average. He couldn't sustain, dipped to a below 60% passer the next 2 years while his TD % dipped those 2 years also. His adjust yards dramatically dropped and his rating drop. There was no signs of Vick sustaining that career play. There were a lot of things in motion. I don't think the Jets want a one year wonder just waiting to flame out again. They want sustained play.

    That doesn't mean I'm against cutting Sanchez/resigning him for cheap. I wouldn't mind that I just think it's better for Sanchez to get a fresh start.

    EDIT: Vick's sudden drop in INT% was like Sanchez in 2010. Then we saw both QBs adjust to their normal levels of throwing INT's in the following two years. Maybe MM fixed Vick for that year, it didn't last long. It seems to be more of a blip in Vick's career than an actual fix, just like Sanchez's low INT year
     
  8. Ajitator

    Ajitator Well-Known Member

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    What issues? Even as a backup mark has never put up any kind of rebuttal or given the media something to spin off or as far as any of us know try to separate the locker room, he's been still spending time with members of the team throughout the season.

    If he doesn't win the job in camp I don't see him changing that up and trying to divide the locker room or be a bad team mate. The only people he'll upset are the people here who want him gone at all costs


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  9. Frenbar

    Frenbar Well-Known Member

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    Mark Sanchez is dog shit. Human refuse. If you think there is _ANY_ chance that Sanchez is on the Jets next year, you should immediately get up, run to the nearest window, open it wide, and breath as much air as possible. Then look up, and see what color the sky is in your world, so you can tell us. Sanchez should have been cut after his 3rd season. It will be a great day for Jet fans everywhere when he no longer disgraces the uniform.
     
  10. Footballgod214

    Footballgod214 Well-Known Member

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    Even with every team knowing Mark is getting whacked, Idzik could still land a 4th round pic for him from a team who'd love a backup QB that's won more playoff games than any QB in NY Jets history.
     
  11. TonyMaC

    TonyMaC Well-Known Member

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    why get a player in a trade when you can just wait t out till he's available in free agency?

    I mean the jets have no leverage there. "Better pony up or we'll... uh... cut this mediocre franchise quarterback in the next year...."

    there will be moderate interest in him in a similar class as vick, freeman, and the lot. we ain't getting nothing but some cap space.
     
  12. kevmvp

    kevmvp Well-Known Member

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    I understand what your saying.

    They probably all had better receiving talent then what we had last year, but not necessarilly in years past. Holmes, Edwards, and J-Co was very solid. Sanchez didn't do much with them. You can't use the teams end result to justify the play of Sanchez. That's not how you judge a QB. Just because Cutler misses the playoffs and the Jets go to the AFC Title game doesn't mean Sanchez is better then Cutler. It means the Jets are better then the Bears.

    It's not a fantasy #'s thing. Doesn't it just make sense that if somebody has a QB they think is better then Sanchez, there is a good chance that QB will probably have better numbers? Not all the time but most? People take that and say "oh you just like stats". It's not about stats. It's about efficiency and productivity on a week to week basis. Better players just usually happen to have better numbers then a weaker player.

    I don't hate Sanchez, i'm not the type of person who makes fun of him or bashes him unfairly. I don't care about the buttfumble or plays like that. One play doesn't make a career. When I watch him play I just don't see a legit QB. He has his moments which is why I think he would make a good backup somewhere.

    The biggest problem I have is that when other people bring up QB's they would rather have they get judged on their teams overall performance. You can be a good player on a bad team. It does happen. Maybe certain QB's do have a tendency to have a couple bad games at the worst times and they fall short of the playoffs, but their teams probably werent as strong as Marks were in 09, and 10. He had plenty of bad games where his team was able to win. For Stafford or Cutler that may not be the case.

    The point I was originally trying to make is that isn't it funny how we sit back and talk about all the good/great receivers certain QB's on certain teams have? I'm not saying the receivers aren't capable but do you think a guy like Keenan Allen or TY Hilton would have made Sanchez all that much better? I'm not so sure, obviously they are better then what we have but the QB still has to get those guys the ball. The point i'm making is that QB's can make receivers look better then they are. Sanchez supporters overrate some of the receiving talent other guys have and in doing so underrate the QB's throwing them the ball. And for the record i'm not talking about elite talents like AJ Green, Calvin Johnson, Fitz, etc. Any QB would see a jump in their numbers if those guys were on the field.
     
    #832 kevmvp, Jan 9, 2014
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2014
  13. legler82

    legler82 Well-Known Member

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    That's an interesting way to interpret Vick's statistical performance in Philly; I saw something completely different. My general point is that the WCO, more specifically MM's WCO, tends to bring out the best of QBs in terms of accuracy, efficiency and production. There are other examples; Vick's just the most recent. Vick's top 3 year end CMP% totals (62.6, 59.8 & 58.1) all came under MM's WCO. In the 6 years before the Eagles his avg was 52.2 with a high of 56.4. 2 out of his top 3 years in terms of total TD passes were also under MM's WCO and that's w/o completing 16 games in any of those years. It could have been 3 out of his top 3 but he only played 10 games in 2012.

    When you factor in the WCO was Sanchez's college offense where he showed enough promise that to have him picked 5th overall and that Mark is a rhythmic passer with good footwork, ideal for the WCO, I believe we were set to see the best of Sanchez in 2013, whatever that may be. If brought back 2014 maybe an even better Sanchez. As in addition to the factors above, he would be in the 2nd year of the system, had a year to sit and observe/learn, presumably have better weapons and playing for his career.
     
  14. Ralebird

    Ralebird Well-Known Member

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    What? No takers here?
     
  15. lakersmetsjets49ers

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    If he goes elsewhere he's not going to turn into a great player. Could he possibly revive his career in a poor man Alex Smith role in a place like cincinnati? I could see it happening. Hell I could see him game managing a team to a wild card round win on the right team and matchup. However that's his ceiling if everything that can go right does go right for him.

    If they upgrade the offense during the offseason and he were to take a huge paycut I could see the reasoning for keeping him around. However knowing what his ceiling is, its best for both sides if they part ways. He's never going to be a great qb and say if he were to stick around, win the job from geno, they make the playoffs as a wild card with him game managing the team while playing on a leash all it would do is screw them over long term. Like I said, at this point its best for both sides to move on. Sanchez deserves his share of the blame but I hope the jets learned what not to do in terms of qb development when it comes to geno or whoever the long term guy may be.
     
  16. nyjunc

    nyjunc 2008 TGG Bryan Cox "Most Argumentative" Award Winn

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    that list is just awful, it's so sad we'll be getting rid of a better, younger QB for options like that.
     
  17. TonyMaC

    TonyMaC Well-Known Member

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    Its what we'll be working with now, because Sanchez is not the answer.

    he needs to go, he just does. theres no reason for him to be here, he's failed as a franchise QB and needs to enter a new phase in his career, staying where he was once the man won't work.

    for all the players that are supposed to be successful in a good environment and fail, Sanchez was supposed to be a high caliber playoff winning QB and couldn't live up to that as time went on.

    Even if circumstances weren't perfect for him to succeed, he should be able to compensate better for that to some extent and not collapse the way he did over time.

    Theres no reason to give him another chance because 2013 was his extra last chance. he's done with the jets. its over, and you know what? thats probably for the best.
     
  18. nyjunc

    nyjunc 2008 TGG Bryan Cox "Most Argumentative" Award Winn

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    I don't think he NEEDS to go but b/c of the whiny fanbase he probably should go. That would be best for him but he's still young and we are giving up on talent. I know w/ the salary we have to release him but they should also try to re-sign him at a lower cost. would be much better than signing some bum off the stret.

    he didn't get a chance in 2013 b/c of the sham competition.
     
  19. Acad23

    Acad23 Well-Known Member

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    I agree.

    It's downright depressing.
     
  20. TonyMaC

    TonyMaC Well-Known Member

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    oh for...GM's. WANT. TO WIN.

    I can't believe you really believe they rigged a competition, why? the biggest benefit to a GM's job is to have a good QB playing. he wouldn't give a damn about picking "his guy", especially not a man he passed up on at first, or about appeasing dumb fans, since this is a winning move apparently and thats all that matters.

    If sanchez was as good as you say he'd be the starter immediately and they never would have had Smith start in the first place. the fact that they feel as though the competition had to last that long is the most damning thing about how the franchise views him, and is probably a sign he's not that great. A man thats this good doesn't worry about these things, they're instant starters vouched for as such.

    This fan base is whiney at times, but he really isn't that much of a talent that its a crying shame we're giving up on him, dude. he's in a maddening state of "well what if we just gave him X,Y and Z this time to make him work because he won those 4 games, I mean if he just gets a chance under a full moon on a monday, he might be something of a decent game manger or, or,or-"

    stop.

    No more passive aggressive deliberation, no more trying to make him work, every team when they cut a player gives up some level of talent.

    he did some good but hasn't played well enough since. he's regressed and isn't worth the time to resign him, this can't be the the first time a good QB was forgone for not showing signs of quality after a good spell.
     
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