What exactly are you trying to change my mind about? That NFL does not place a premium on wins and losses? If that's it, then yes, you will not be changing my mind. If it's something else, then let's continue. I'll make it easier for you. Since in your eyes, Sanchez does not deserve credit for the playoff wins in which he actually played well in, let's remove it as a criteria. Find me the long list of QBs drafted in the top 5 with winning records that were given the quick hook. Except for Young everyone on that list was worse than Sanchez and DID NOT WIN GAMES!!! Young would have gotten close to 60 starts in his 4 years had stayed healthy and sane.
So how many years do you give Mark? And how come no improvement. And why such poor stats over a 4 year period. He's regressed. You're bringing up what happened three years ago. He was ok not great. But what about the present. This team needs to go in a different direction. You can't stay with mediocrity. The only time he was productive was with the ground and pound. As soon as they tried to go with him as a regular throwing quarterback he imploded. Other guys and there are many many more include Joey Harrington, Rick Mirer, Brady Quinn, Ryan Leaf, etc etc etc
PFF does a great job of breaking down how a player performs in all of his snaps, not just a select few. Sanchez grades out as one of the worst QB's in the league in all but one season. And that one season he was still below average. When your breaking down a QB or any player you cant just focus on one or two throws in a game. You have to take break them all down. Take the large sample size over the smaller one.
Did I say that? I said these advanced stats help break down a player much better then talking about how "gutty", "clutch", or "mentally tough" a player is. BTW don't you think GM's in baseball decide who they are going to start based on things like OBP, SLG, OPS, WAR? Because those are things people use to laugh off too. Funny how things change as we become more advanced. I'm not saying that GM's go based off of PFF numbers but they give us a better evaluation of how a player is performing then most other things you look at. Sanchez supporter's don't hesitate to throw his numbers out there when he has a good game, but they don't like to look at the bad ones. And there is a lot more bad then good.
Read the following very slowly and carefully: No one is asking to give Mark anything but an opportunity to compete.
Only problem I see with this is the lack of reps during TC with the new CBA. You basically have to have I whittled down to 2 or 3 viable starters max by that time. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Those who know me would consider me the furthest thing from a "Sanchez supporter". But on this board I guess that's what I am, since there seems to a meridian here with everything. Every topic is perceived as black and white with no grey. I'm definitely not a "fuck Suckchez" guy so that means I have to be the only alternative the "Sanchez supporter" a.k.a "Suckchez fanboy". I personally view myself more a "supporter" or "defender" of yielding as much return as possible in the investment that is Sanchez. Sanchez is the only top 5 overall QB the Jets have drafted in my lifetime as a fan. Thus, I'm not as much in a hurry as many to usher him out of town without exhausting EVERY option. When we drafted traded up to get Sanchez, my thoughts were that he was talented but an unfinished product that should not have been drafted that high. I felt that because of his inexperienced, in terms of starts, he would need to be coached up. And that he wasn't a plug and play in any scheme type. His talents could only be maximized under the right system. He was a rhythm passer that need to utilized great footwork and mechanics based on timing, a natural for the WCO but not much else. Fast forward 4 years later. The team prioritizing winning (which I agreed with) over his development, a steady decay of surrounding talent, 2 terrible OCs (the second worse than the first), the Tebow fiasco and an overall poor management of a QB culminated into a complete lost of confidence (his and everyone else's in him) mid way through the 2012 season. Despite all this, my scouting report remains somewhat the same. In my mind, the 4 years of experience which includes 2 deep playoff runs offsets the confidence lost which I hope was temporary (we'll see). In classic, Jets fashion, they finally get the quality OC and QB coach in combination with the right scheme and the coach puts the kid in the 4th quarter of a meaningless game in which he gets hurt. This horrendous decision did at least allow us to see what we had in Geno. I saw, better yet confirmed, that he was even more ill-prepared to start than Sanchez was 4 years ago. Now to Sanchez and next season. He is gratuitously overpaid and can not remain on the roster at his current price. If I can get him on a contract commensurate with his production thus far, full of incentives with no guarantees of a roster spot let alone a starting position, it's a no brainer for me. I can still bring in a FA and draft someone that can possibly win the job. Or Geno can have the greatest off-season ever and come back as the clear choice. All the while I retain the possibility of getting more of a return on my initial Sanchez investment (slim as it maybe in the eyes of many). It can be in the form of him miraculously winning and taking a long-term hold of the position or playing well enough to garner trade compensation. For this to work, the FO really have to believe in the mantra of competition. No one can have a horse in the race. Let the best man win. Of course, this is all predicated on him actually wanting to come back on the terms described. If he wants to leave or doesn't want to take a pay cut, then fuck him. It's no different than me wanting to get the most of guys like Robertson and Vilma during Mangini's early years even though I knew their days were numbered as Jets. Note these are picks that I was not very fond of as they represented the personnel Herm was putting together along with Badway to implement the Tampa Cover Who defense. Though Robertson had a stretch where he played above his head in the 3-4, for the most part both guys sucked ass in that system. Rather than calling for them to be cut, I wanted Mangini to play a little more 4 man fronts to maximize the investments already made.
And there in lies our fundamental disagreement. You would practically pay him to leave while I find that irrational. I appreciate you just coming out and say as oppose to BS like "it will cause a divided locker room".
Guys will have to do the most with the little reps they get. Outside of Cutler, which my strategy doesn't apply to as he would be a guaranteed starter, no one would be use to, need or expect a lot of reps. The other FAs are mostly back-usp who aren't use to getting a lot of reps. A mid to late round rookie is not going to come in expecting a lot of reps. Sanchez would be a 5 year vet in the 2nd year of the same system, he shouldn't need a lot of reps. And I've already posted in other threads that Geno has had the most starts by a 2nd round QB not named Tony Banks or Andy Dalton in the past 20 years. And they put up decent #s unlike Geno.
I understand the points your making. And just to throw it out there i'm not a "fuck Suckchez" guy either. I don't hate him, I really don't. It might come off that way cause i'm not pro Sanchez at this point. I just think we can do better then him is my only point. I've said a bunch of times, I don't think Sanchez is talentless. I've seen enough good games from him to know he has some talent. He'll probably make for a solid backup somewhere. I just think there are other guys who can start for us who are better options then him that might not be getting as much talk as he does. That's what I mean when I say "deserve a shot". As for your point about bringing Sanchez back, under those terms you mentioned, your right. It does make sense and i'd have no problem with that at all. But the "IF" you mentioned is a big one. It's hard for a coach or GM to not have a dog in the fight. In a perfect world your scenario is the best one. There's nothing wrong with bringing Sanchez back and throwing him in a competition with 3 other QB's (preferably 1 drafted in one of the first 3 rounds, Geno, and a vet). I just don't know if it's a realistic option. What if Sanchez doesn't win the job but outplays 2 of the other guys? Do we sit him as the backup? Could that work? Or will we be dealing with a crazy QB controversy the first time the guy who wins the job struggles? Sanchez has become a bit of a lightening rod now. Even if he isn't the best guy for the job but belongs on the roster he's always going to have fans who want him to start at the first sign of trouble or people in the media looking to stir up controversy. Is that fair for another QB we bring in here? I just question whether Sanchez is good enough to deal with the other stuff we will have to deal with when it comes to him. And to be fair, none of that stuff is really his fault at the end of the day.
I think Sanchez' future is tied directly to Rex' future in NY. If Idzik opts to retain Rex, Sanchez may be back. Should Idzik fire Rex I have my doubts that he goes backwards. Geno's Myth represents John Idzik's stamp on the franchise. He was appointed the starter without being ready and that no doubt is on Idzik. He may bring in a vet and draft another guy but my thought process is that Idzik made it clear the Jets were moving in a different direction than Sanchez. I can't help but wonder how Idzik views Rex' mistake of putting Sanchez in at the end of that PS game costing him a chance to play this year? If Sanchez doesn't get hurt, he's your starter since at least the Miami game and certainly gives you a clearer picture of the future.
1. I am not against Sanchez returning; as long as he takes MASSIVE - read it. I said Massive. That means over 75% - pay cut. 2. If Geno is not leaving, then I'd want Sanchez to leave. 3. I don't think either is a NFL starter material. Maybe Sanchez has more talent than Geno ever will. That kid is dumb as a doorknob. [i.e. Most of his INTs this season were on him staring down his primary read all along DESPITE TIGHT/MULTIPLE COVERAGE, not because the protection broke down or free rusher disrupted his passing motion. That kid is a moron.] 4. If I could have it my way, however, I'd like to see Jets draft some smart QB prospect with real offense background [pro-offense experience.] Hopefully he has 3+ years of experience. After that kid is drafted, I want to see him ride the bench for a year or two. I want either [between Sanchez and Geno] for that role - to take the beating till the new kid is ready[1] and he has enough weapons and protection around him [2]. 5. And Jets D can use that window to fill the holes in S spot and OLB spot as well.
