While throwing good money after bad isn't a good idea, that isn't necessarily the case here. Vlad can perform on occasion, and, as indicated in the quote, Vlad's had quite a few hurdles. Compared to himself, he's improved tremendously. This is undeniable as he's played in the regular season without letting the QB get seriously injured. Still, compared to other guards in the NFL, Vlad remains still too inconsistent to start. His next contract should properly reflect expectations for his performance. It should be a one year deal that is, as mentioned above, cheap and easy to dump. As other posters have mentioned, acquiring first-round talent strains the cap greatly, even on the line, and resigning Vlad should be a very low cost, high reward maneuver. At best, he has a major leap and becomes a Moore-esqure guard. At worst, Vlad serves as good training camp fodder. If the young man can't improve during the off season and earn at least a backup spot next year, then it'll be time to part ways for sure.
maybe for vet minimum but doubtful. Hopefully either o' doushie (sp) or campbell will be able to contribute next year. Will have to draft at least one o-line again next yr too. re-sign howard
Yes, I'm glad to see someone got the gist of what I was trying to say. When peeps lambast Ducasse and Hill and scream to dump them I think they are forgetting to calculate just how thin this team is. Consider where we will need starters next year: 1-2 CBs 1 Safety 1 LB 1-2 OL 2 WR most likely 1 TE That is 7-9 starters!!! And the kicker is it could very well be higher. So even if we get some starters and lots of solid contributors and backups, immediately, from EVERY draft pick next year we will need a few (likely expensive) FAs to be signed to start. This is BEFORE adding any depth. So dumping Ducasse, who may still have some upside! just doesn't make sense. If he does continue to develop he could fill a desperately needed starting role for cheap. But even if he levels off he is a serviceable backup, which we will need, and provides training camp competition. The same exact equation applies to Hill as well.
I'm going from memory here, but I believe that Ducasse didn't start playing football until college. I'm not sure if he played four years or not, but it is very important that he didn't grow up with the game. It takes thousands of hours to become proficient at something. In fact, there is a theory that excellence on occurs after a person has invested 10,000 hours of practice in their chosen activity. So growing up with the game, or in this case not growing up with it, has really stunted his development IMHO.
What upside? You do realize Winters is rated the 2nd worst guard in the NFL right now by PFF and if Vlad is so terrible that he cant find a way back into the lineup, thats all you need to know. Some of you Jet fans just dont know when to let go. No need to grasp at straws anymore....
Vlad will be a tough decision. You like his versatility, run blocking ability & the fact that he will likely come cheap. That said..he isn't a long term starter,he may get in the way of other young linemen who have shown some promise(namely Campbell) & he represents a mistake from a past regime. At the end of the day I think I re-sign him on the cheap for camp depth/competition but he's the first out the door if another young OL steps up in camp/preseason.
IMO the difference between Hill and Vlad is that Hill has a ton of talent and has shown a flash or two. Vlad has never flashed and is just dumb and bad. IMO he shouldn't even stay as TC fodder. They will have Campbell, Dalton, Winters, the OG they sign in FA or draft and possibly Aboushi, plus probably a UDFA OG for TC reps. I don't want Vlad taking reps away from someone who can possibly help the team going forward. Vlad has proven that he is useless. He's had 4-5 years already. That's more than enough. I can't believe that anyone is seriously even suggesting that he should be brought back. Dumping Vlad makes a LOT Of sense. There will be someone else who is much better for about the same money.
10,000 hours is waaaaaaaaaaay too much. Do you know how many days/months/years? that is? He'd be 40 by the time he learned and improved enough to be any good.
This is one of those counters just for the sake of it. I'm comparing the fact they both struggled with pass protection and penalties early in their career nothing more and nothing less. If you are trying to say Moore had an excuse while Vlad does not, I would argue that Ducasse had not been playing the sport for as long as Moore at the same point in their careers.
Draft picks like Vlad are one of the main reasons that Tanny is no longer employed. Idzick was brought in to clean up the mess made by him, he didn't draft Vlad and has no ties to him. Vlad is ONLY on the roster at this point because of where he was drafted, similar to Hill, not on his production. This season he couldn't even perform his job well enough to hold off a rookie - cut bait and move on...
On this team not getting playing time has nothing to do with the guy ahead of you playing better (see Smith/Simms, Milliner or Cro/Walls, Reed/Allen).
This theory is predicated on most exceptional people starting very young. This is why I pointed out that Vlad did not grow up playing football like the vast majority of his teammates and colleagues in the NFL. Remember that I'm not talking about the average dude off the street here, I'm talking about the people who make history. This is why I am not so down on Vlad. OTOH, I don't think he will ever be exceptional either. The thing is we simply do not have the luxury to seek exceptional players right now, there are simply way too many holes to fill. If he can become a solid Guard then that's fine by me. I don't see why peeps like 94legler can't see that. Even if he made zero improvement he is a serviceable backup on a team thin in talent and playing a position where having players who know each other is particularly important. Btw, as to this theory I've mentioned, it is a lot of time. Personally, I don't think it is some hard and fast rule, but it makes sense that time and dedication are important. For instance, as much as I've been critical of Keyshawn, he was a practice 'ho. Peyton Manning literally inhales film. CMart used to run up the stairs in a condo complex (or something like that) in the offseason to keep his legs strong. Vlad needs to take these lessons to heart. Is Vlad watching tape and studying the mental part of the game? Does he practice in the offseason? If Vlad isn't doing this stuff to catch up then his critics will be absolutely right in the end. PS- as an aside, 10k hours isn't quite as long as you think. If he had NEVER played football before and started now he would have to work 5 hours a day, 200 days a year in order to reach that level in ten years. That sounds like a lot but the typical person works WAY more at their job in a given year both in hours and days. However, Vlad has been playing over five years now, so he has a huge amount of time into this equation. See what I'm saying? Vlad's problem is that most of his colleagues are probably a few thousand hours ahead of him AND don't have a language barrier. (I have thought this theory explains the late bloomer phenomenon nicely.)
Well, you've ignored the bulk of what I've said, but you do realize the primary reason Vlad was benched was because of penalties, right? If you think it is pass protection then you haven't been watching the games. Brick has been downright awful at times and most of the others have been suspect as well. The fact is that the OL has has lousy pass protection WITH Vlad in and WITHOUT Vlad in. That makes a very strong case for this not being an issue isolated to him and it makes it much harder to pin down exactly who was losing their man and letting in rushers all of the time. listen, I don't think Vlad is a future HoF candidate. I do believe we are a team in desperate need of bodies. I also think we are going to be looking at Colon another year older. So even if the two are exactly equal qualitatively then the only direction Colon is going is down. Vlad may have an upside, he may not (as others have argued so forcefully).
Vlad has shown flashes as well, albeit fewer. He has also had fewer opportunities. As to finding someone else, great, I hope we do. But did you look at my list above? Everyone criticizing keeping Vlad has completely ignored that. Where are all these quality players gonna come from and how do we fit them under the cap without killing our future? Even with the money we have next year it won't be enough to sign lots of big time, splashy FAs, resign MoWilk (don't forget about him), sign our draft picks, resign our own FAs, and flesh out the team with depth. We just can't do it, so someone that Jets fans don't like will be back so you might as well root for them cuz Vlad, or Hill, or some other players like that are here for at least another TC and probably another season.
I agree that we need to forget about finding an "exceptional" OG and focus on finding a solid one. I also agree that we have lots of holes, and may need to hold onto some guys that we'd like to replace. That said, injuries happen frequently to OL. I think Vlad has shown that he can't even be solid. If the starting OG went out with a serious injury and Vlad had to start for an extended stretch, he could very easily torpedo what could be a good season. I still think there are better OGs out there who will be about as cheap as he is. Starting playing football late really isn't an excuse imo. That was the same problem with a certain OLB the Jets drafted who was a total bust. Let some other team take on the long-term projects, so far the Jets are 0 for 2 with those types. Vlad has contributed some, but not at the level of a second round pick. IMO it's time to cut bait and replace him. With the cap space the Jets will have available, there's no reason they can't find a better OG than Vlad. As for the 10,000 hours, how is he supposed to work more than 5 hours a day (or even 5 a day with the new player agreement where there are no two-a-days and a team can't practice in pads more than 2x a week)? He would need teammates taking the reps with him, and would need to play in actual games to help him develop/learn. If NFL-Europe was still around, he might have a shot, but otherwise, I just don't see it.
I agree that we're likely to have a bunch of new starters, and know that some players will probably have to stay that we don't want. I just think that Vlad is the worst of them and should be the first to go.
