Read this analysis and see if you can guess who the draft guru is talking about? (Answer to come later today.) STRENGTHS Has a well-built frame with a wide back, broad shoulders, V-shaped torso, large hands, long limbs, defined muscles throughout and thick thighs and calves... Excellent speed rusher who needs to be accounted for on every play and has good field presence, locating the ball quickly to fly to it and contain the run... Has the ability to consistently disrupt the backfield, as he has the speed to escape and the strength to overpower offensive tackles off the edge... Plays with the type of effort and emotion that makes a coach comfortable knowing that he will make plays all over the field...
You gotta have desire to play the game to be a player. One real clue on a workout warrior is when the analyst describes him like he's competing in a body building competition. I want square ugly looking play makers over v-shaped Adonis every day of the week and twice on the Sunday.
Except you don't take solely a pass rusher with the 9th overall pick. You take a complete OLB who can set the edge,drop back in coverage AS WELL AS pass rush.
I hate to say it, but he actually wasn't horrible at setting the edge.lol. I remember Tannenbaum & Mangini talking up that aspect after they drafted him.He just had no motor or ability to bend as a pass rusher.
You got it! It was Gholston. The list of positives went on forever and in this particular mock they didn't list any weaknesses. However, the reason I posted this was because I'm concerned that the Jets are going to go with another potential guy like Mingo who smells like another VG to me. Hopefully, Idzik continues his prudent path and selects solid prospects who produced for at least 3 years and in every game they played. On another note, when did "sudden" become a noun? So tired of this "mock-speak."
Unfortunately hybrid pass rushers are extremely hard to project. Odds are, if you are picking 1 in the first round there is gonna be a large level of risk. That said, we've seen the result of not having a quality OLB over a number of years. You can't get to the QB which means you can't get off the field on 3rd down. Additionally, we've struggled w/ setting the edge in passing situations, which opens huge running lanes & huge gains. I don't see any similarities between Mingo & Gholston at all. As I stated above, yes Mingo presents some risk but other than that their games are so different. Gholston was a power guy while Mingo is all about speed/first step. Gholston played inthe big 10 while Mingo in the SEC. Gholston had one year of mind blowing production while Mingo had multiple years of good not great production.
The thing that worries me the most in this draft is that the Jets are going to confuse potential NFL star power with great athletic potential and make a bad choice on the 9 or 13. Dion Jordan has potential NFL star power. He's a bit of an odd bird when you look at him up close because of the roles he was asked to play but there's no question that he could be a great archetypal NFL front 7 player. Barkevious Mingo has great athletic potential. He's also a bit hard to quantify because of his unusual body type but his career at LSU does not suggest that he's going to be a great NFL front 7 player. The reason I'm worried is that Jordan is not going to get down to the 9. However Mingo is very likely to be available there and it would be easy for the Jets to see him as a slightly less valuable version of Jordan. In fact he's probably a tenth of the player that Jordan's ceiling suggests.
Of the OLBS available Jordan & Mingo are the only 2 I like. I agree that Jordan is the superior prospect...but truthfully I think Mingo maybe the better pass rusher at this point. Mingo was a much more downhill player in college & he most certainly drew more attention from opposing offenses than Jordan did. I also think he has a superior first step. Jordan is superior prospect b/c he's more well rounded player at this stage when you factor in setting the edge & dropping into coverage. he also has a better body type as he is longer & heavier.
I was listening to Pat Kirwan on satellite a few weeks ago and he was discussing the passrusher position. And one guy he really liked was Damontre Moore from Texas A&M. And what he liked was what your talking about Br4dw4y5ux...that he IS a production guy. His a player that just destroyed people all over the field. Nothing about potential, all about production and winning the battles in every game. He's got some off field issues that have pushed him down to mid-first round or later, but to hear Kirwan, you'd have to say that Moore is the opposite of a Mingo. I wasn't happy that the Jets selected Couples last year, another project guy with upside, when they had their choice of safer options, such as Chandler Jones. Obviously hoping Couples improves on the flashes he showed last year, but this year, if it comes down to choosing a less proven player with upside or a producer who is at his peak, I want them to go with the latter.
Here's the passer we need- Ascending talent whose intangibles for the position are just as impressive as his physical tools. ... Cerebral. ... Reads defenses well and rarely throws into coverage. ... Goes through his progression quickly and takes what the defense gives him. ... Recognizes the blitz very well for a player of his experience and often targets the defenses' weak link when being blitzed. ... Good setup and a smooth, over-the-top delivery. ... Legitimate NFL arm strength. ... Capable of making every NFL throw, including the deep ball. ... Rather than relying on pure arm strength, combines good velocity with rare anticipation, especially for a player of his limited experience. ... Consistently releases his passes before his receivers have even made their breaks, giving the defense little time to react. ... Distributes the ball all over the field. ... Good short-, medium-, and long-range accuracy. ... Consistently places his passes where only his receiver can get it and throws a very catchable ball... Can evade the pass rush and will scramble if the defense gives free yards. ... Rare accuracy on the rollout. ... Squares his shoulders and can fire the ball with consistency and accuracy.
Everybody seems to be on this "Production" kick this year. Unfortunately it isn't that easy.There have been countless guys at every position who were major stat guys in college who just don't have the physical skills to make it in the NFL. This is even further exemplified with pass rushers/line play when you factor in level of competition & the notion of blocking schemes(double teams,etc). Bottom line is there is a MAJOR difference between a college linemen & an NFL one. And regardless of what a player did in college if they don't have the technique/quickness/strength to hang w/ the professionals..they're gonna get thrown around likje a rag doll at the next level. Production is certainly an aspect subject to evaluation...but in no way should it be the "end all" to make up a draft board.
The one thing about Gholston, that I certainly recall by many scout is that he put on a disapeering act in many games in college. To me, above all else, that should put up a big red flag. When you read about a player doing a Houdini act, it makes you wonder if that will carry over to the next level, and that's exactly what occured with Gholston or Ghoston as he was dubiously labled. The 2 players I like that have no Houdinism, if they make to #9, are Jarvis Jones and Floyd among others I may have overlooked.
If Jordan is a 3-down player and Mingo is a situational pass rusher then Jordan is probably ten times more valuable than Mingo. If Jordan is a great 3-down player and Mingo is a great situational pass rusher then Jordan is probably a hundred times more valuable than Mingo. Competitive value in sports is more of a logarithmic function than a linear one. There are ten guys good enough to start and play at a position for every star. There are ten star caliber players for every hall of fame bound guy. The difference between a guy good enough to start and a superstar can easily be a hundred fold in terms of value. Then you get into positional questions and impact that a player can have in a given role and things get really complicated from there.
People say this about everybody, every year. They said it about Wilks 2 years back and Coples last year. Both players have proved to be much better. Gholston was an exception, not really the standard for first round OLB / pass rushers. People act like because we got a guy that looked good ahead of time but sucked means we'll easily make that mistake again. It was just bad luck. People need to stop comparing every 1st round pick we make to Gholston. Besides, it wasn't just the Jets that thought he was good, it was scouts, analysts and everything else. It just shows you that no pick is guaranteed. The NFL is not college. And there you go, proving my point. Coples barely played in the earlier portion of the year, and didn't really get full time snaps until past the midway point when he began to understand the playbook better. After that he outplayed a lot of DEs and started really disrupting olines. All of his sacks came in the 2nd half of the season. He was pretty beastly in the 2nd half of the year, much better than Jones. Chandler Jones got .5 more sacks than Coples for the year, despite playing a different position, who's purpose is not soley to pass rush. Coples as a 3-4 DE, doesn't have the primary responsibility of rushing the QB like Jones, so the comparison is silly. Coples was ranked far ahead of Chandler Jones for a reason. And who the fuck still calls him Couples? That's shit was funny for like a week after he was drafted.
Jordan is superior to Mingo b/c he already has the body type & has already displayed the ability to do multiple things in the OLB role. That isn't to say that Mingo doesn't PROJECT to do those same things...b/c he does. He HAS the movement skills to cover & he HAS the frame & long arms to add strength to get better at setting the edge. He just isn't a finished product which always leads to question marks.
