The owner is a BIG Tebow fan. Not sure why you would call him a joke just because his GM said he wasn't the slightest bit interrested in Tebow. I don't think anyone could deny his chances of starting were a lot better in Jacksonville. If that were foremost on Tebow's mind, there would be no reason to go to the Jets. Or do you believe the choice really wasn't his as he seemed to suggest at the time?
I'm sorry but you are wrong. Despite Tebow being very religious and how much he devotes his life to it, he still understands that his career as a football player is what allows him to have a big stage. Starting QB in Denver or backup QB in NY? He would take starting QB in Denver 100 times out of 100. As for the rest of the stuff you're talking about, that's just nonsense. Our offense was awful, had no creativity and our coaching staff was clueless. Also, we had no running game and our receivers stunk. Tebow had no chance of success before he even stepped onto the field. If you aren't a Jets fan then I have no idea why you are commenting on this. You didn't watch all our games so you're basically guessing.
All the more reason to think it might have done Tebow a favor not giving him a start or two. It does also help explain why Sanchez was having such a bad year too.
Mr. Major, I think you may have missed some of my posts. I am a very big Jets fans because one of my good friends/roommates from college has been on the roster for a few years now. I have been to several games the last few years and watched most of them when I could. The Jets offense was incredibly vanilla. That had a lot to do with the talent of the skill players and limited imagination of the play caller. The points I was making were: 1) Tim is not skilled enough (IN THE PROS!) to run much other than a few draw plays, dive plays, or basic play action plays. I agree that those plays are not likely to accomplish much. That is the problem with Tim playing QB. His limitations become the limitations of the entire offense. Limited playcalling for Tim in the NFL is not an accident or coincidence, it is a necessity. 2) You are absolutely right about Tim correlating his NFL career to his "platform." I agree. I am saying Tim used faulty logic when selecting the Jets as the team he wanted to play for. He was not better than the atrocities already on the roster. Tim's fans and parents have instilled in him a belief that starting is his right and he simply needs to be there and the job will become his.
Careful now, stats are only stats as far as the statistician is concerned. As one who was forced to take many statistics courses solely to keep the statistics professors employed, I have a very opinionated view of statistics. Consider this, statisticians are employed (as in large gobs of money are thrown at them) to provide a statistical analysis of a certain subject/product. More likely than not the purpose of the analysis is to benefit the paying customer. So in our most perfect world it is only fitting that the statisticians do not bite the hand that feeds them. Statisticians do like to remain gainfully employed.
"Numbers never lie, but liars use numbers." I get it. Tebow United just tells everyone to stick to facts and to avoid personal attacks. I figured I would remind one of your own that some things are irrefutable. The NFL commonly keeps systematic, consecutive stats, using the base ten counting system. This system indicates 42 yards generated by Jeremy Kerley is more (in terms of count value) than the 39 yards generated by Tim Tebow. This system also verifies that Tim started 0.0000000000000000000 NFL games this year. I started 0.000000000000000 NFL games this year. It is a reasonable conclusion that Tim and I started the same amount of games in the NFL this past season. I am not good enough to play QB in the NFL. Tim is??? but he started as many games as me???? I am an NFL QB???? *scratching head
We both made our points regarding the top part of this post.... so moving on. No need to keep saying the same stuff to each other. You can mix and match any player depending on who is in this position or that position (hence fantasy football). Absolutely, you can compare this or that. But Sanchez is slipping. Can't be said if Tim is because he didn't play QB for a year. Basically was on a vacation riding the pine pony. To be clear, as a fan of Tebow's, doesn't mean I think he alone carried the Broncos. No. Did he inject new life into a sinking team... absolutely. It takes a whole hell of a lot to be the ones on top at the end of the game. Never does it fall to one person. To me, it seems like Tim had a lot of 'lucky' breaks for it just to be a fluke. It is know that Tebow was asked to run the ball more often in Denver to throw. But when he was allowed to throw, huge yardage was gained. That point in many places (not only here or there) seems to be swept under the rug or simply forgotten. Were you may see Denver was nothing (as many others do and thats respectful), others see Denver as proof that Tebow can get more wins then loses. A point we will not see eye to eye on, which is fine. Absolutely and credit should not be taken away from them. I always feel that what somebody has done should be given credit. I follow Tebow more closely then other players, so I give Tebow credit more often then those. Doesn't mean others are swept under the rug. Well, thats the debate! LOL He is not as flawed as you may think or care to know better. Coach Steve Clarkson who has worked with Tim talks a lot about Tim and how he should be given a chance. As he also talks with about other footballs players. Make no mistake, he isn't just giving Tim props. I believe the link to his tumblr page was already given in another thread around here somewhere. I would link it, however I don't have those privileges yet. I found his page to be very interesting even beyond the Tebow content. It's kind of cool getting to hear what a training coach has to say. So there again the practice debate for me is questionable, because he does do well in practices. I can see why you think that, but there again people don't realize how much he actually does practice. I can vouch for knowing. The Daily News used Tebow friendly forums to track him down at training. Not to proud of that actually! LOL Kind of creeped me out that they would use twitter, fan forums, and other random sources to find him. So just because the speaking engagements get more press space, doesn't mean it's not known how much Tebow is training. It concerns me. Not going to lie. There again, I believe I am going to see it one way, you another. *shrugs shoulders* Ugh. LOL That is ridiculous. To me religion has nothing to do with his football no matter how big a thing everyone makes it. Actually, I make it a point to make sure the religious chatter stays where it belongs when talking Tebow in any conversation I have about him. Doesn't mean it hasn't come up and split people on the topic, but hey as you know convos can go astray at times. Yeah, that is scary indeed.
Yeah, anytime Tebow's name is mentioned, his 'stach twitches. I digress, I do know it was well know that owner wanted him... everybody else not so much. To me it seems the owner needs to work on getting coaches that can get their team playing well, before they are worrying about snapping up the right players. They seem to have a revolving door there, which is not good at all for building a winning team. I believe Tim may have saw that. There again, anyone's guess is as good as mine regarding that matter. In all seriousness, I believe it wasn't as big a deal as many people want or make it out to believe. I know that may seem like a passive opinion that most here would see as me being biased towards Tebow. I remember when Tebow had his conference and all the major networks covered it as we all know. Anyways, I was in the car and was listening to the broadcast of the entire presser on the radio. I live in the tri-state area and heard it on the major news network that comes out of NYC and when I heard it on the radio; when they asked him about it... I took it as he was asked which team do you think you have a better chance to compete for a job. I believe and this is how it came across to me that he gave his thoughts, but Elway had the finally say. Which I believe. I do not believe that Tim Tebow would have had the absolute final decision, because from what I understand no player has that power to do such a thing unless he is a free agent. Which Tim was not. I do not feel that Tim was given any other special treatments that another player would be denied. I think he was asked where he would prefer to go and that may have been taken into consideration. I know that may not be the answer that people may like, but it's how I feel about that situation. I am basing that belief on the bigger picture and what I know as a fan when it comes to trading, etc. Do any of us know what actually goes on behind the scenes? Do the players really get a say when it comes down to these more than we may know? Who knows. Once again my guess is only as good as the next one. I didn't realize that many people saw that as a big controversy to tell you the truth.
tt15fan, I see you didn't answer my question. Please explain why you think Khan is "such a joke". Thanks.
Be careful... sounds a lot like the reasons Gator alumni are criticized for when we followed Broncos and Jets progress after Tebow showed up.
Ah yes, you have thrown in a little set theory from Boolean Algebra. Your example sets do not overlap. Look, your comrade in arms (C_C) claims that all of the statistics that have been presented in favor of Tim are flawed and taken out of context, so to afford equal time to the opposition is only fair. Statistical analysis can be manipulated by something as insignificant as omission. By selectively picking and choosing which sub categories to use can alter the results. I simply presented a 2011 statistical comparison of the first x number of games for both Tebow and Elway as performed by the folks at ESPN. The issue was completely side stepped as is so often done by this self professed non-Jets fan/ non-Tebow fan who has admitted that the only reason he is in this forum is to harass the Tebots. I as a Tebot, came here to watch Tim play and cheer him on. In that same act also cheer the Jets on. I was a man without a team and was more than ready to bleed green and white and I will continue to do so.
But I think that is the flaw of people using stat sheets generated by a whole team to evaluate a QB head to head. That works in fantasy football, but it doesn't mean that all things being equal, the QB with the better stats is the better QB. A QB with all-pro receivers, a good offensive line, and a good running game behind him to take the pressure off is simply going to put up better numbers than most QBs who don't have that luxury. He will probably have better numbers playing for the Patriots than he would playing for a team like, say... Kansas City. I submit to you Matt Cassell as evidence. The whole organization is slipping. You really think Sanchez was the only problem the Jets had? You ARE aware of the other glaring problems they had on offense, right? Wasn't all Sanchez, and I don't believe Tebow is good enough to have overcome it. I anything, it would have hurt him. Probably still would have lost, and his fans wouldn't even be able to brag on having a winning record. (Though 9-7 for career doesn't strike me as overly impressive. One loss in that stretch or not having the benefit of a RB going out of bounds would have evened it up and cost the playoff game as well. He'd be 7-7. Hasn't been forgotten. My belief is that this is so because the coaches didn't have much faith in his throwing. True, big yardage was gained from time to time when throwing. The PROBLEM with that is that those plays came too few and far in between. Watching the games, people rave about the long ball pass he managed to connect on, but swept the rug the 4 or 5 other attemtps that found nothing but grass and effectively ended a drive. He was the only starting QB to finish with less than half of his passes connecting. Whether you want to admit it or not, THAT is a problem. It hasn't gone unnoticed by those actually paid to make football decisions either. It goes hand in hand with shortening drives, and putting less points on the board, and hoping the defense can keep the game within a score or two. Besides, he was probably allowed to throw more than most are willing to admit. The times he got sacked or tried to run it don't register as a pass attempt, and there were games where the tried to tuck it in and run it as many as 9 times. Like the Miami game, he had 9 rushing attempts. Not all of them were called, he just ran it when nothing was there. If I said even half of those were called, that would add about 4 or 5 attempts to the stat sheet, would have broken 30 pass attempts. Seems rather normal to me. Same for Detroit, they let him pass there too, and he completed 20something percent and a QB rating of around 40 until the 4th quarter when the Lions didn't even have their starters out there anymore, and Tebow was able to string together a couple of garbage time drives that got the numbers a bit more respectable. That is when Fox changed things up, and it ACTUALLY worked for a bit until teams started running containment schemes limiting his running. They simply didn't trust his passing OVERALL and I really don't blame them from what I was seeing. We have a difference of opinion on HOW that came to be. By your logic, Trent Dilfer being on the Ravens made him great because they won a Super Bowl. Nobody is making the mistake that HE is some big winner just because he was on the team that won games. Everyone knows why he and Brad Johnson have a SB ring. I simply see it the same way with the Broncos when there were so many games where the defense held opponents to 15 points or less. Kyle Orton was 23-2 (mostly from his Chicago days) under those circumstances, so I'm not exactly impressed with Tebow going 9-7 when six of those wins (rookie year had one I believe) came with that. Broncos defense did that SIX times last year, broncos went 5-1 when that happened. Ironically, the loss came against Kyle Orton who managed a whopping 7 points of offense that came on a long run. Some maybe. but not all. Unfortunately, THIS is how Tim is gonna have to convince coaches to take a chance with him. I posted a thread here a while back called "How to get Tebow back into the league as a starter." I identified some of the biggest knocks against him and why teams seem to be ignoring him, and how to fix that. Getting away from the media while training in Zimbabwe or something was one idea. Getting the help needed to become a better practice player was another and I laid out a way to accomplish that even with the limited amount of team organized practices available thanks to CBA rules. Gotta pass that audition to get on the stage. Just like some professions require a test to be taken prior to employment. Might be decent at the job, but people with test taking anxiety gotta find a way past it. some hire tutors. Tebow needs to spend more than just a couple weeks with a guru though. Wasn't saying he wasn't training at all. Just that his current routine isn't working, and sometimes being a rock star seems to be getting in the way a bit. PLENTY of time for that later. Exactly why I leave it out of the discussion. I don't even tell people where I stand with that, because frankly, it is irrelevant.
I believe I answered it in another... sorry I didn't answer you directly. A I mentioned prior...It seems to me several issues are going on with Khan that has me a bit turned off. I will elaborate: He can barely fill a stadium as it is, yet has talked about moving this team to west coast... name California... where there are already enough teams. The rumor of moving to London is interesting. I guess if you don't have the resources in one city, give it a go elsewhere. However, there again the team he has, isn't much to talk about. As I said before, he needs to get right FO folks around him first then build a team. Signing one player that might have extreme str power will not solve all problems in one go. We have seen that with the Jets. There is so much that goes into building a team I get the impression Khan thinks a few good people here or there is a good start but doesn't solve everything. Also, just because Tebow may be liked by Khan, doesn't mean I have to be impressed. If Khan can make better business decisions they I will start paying attention.
Yeah, he owned the team for far less time than many think Tebow should have gotten to prove himself. Only so much a man can do to turn around a franchise in so little time when bogged down with mistakes from the past regime. But John Elway got the Broncos back to respectability after they were the second worse team in the league just 2 years ago. We'll see what the Jags do, but Kahn is a pretty savvy business guy and I believe he is surrounding himself with the right guys now.
The reason people are making a big deal about it is because Tebow has been sold to us as a squeaky clean boy scout god-bot type that cannot tell a lie. Then we evidence that kind of goes against that, and well... coverup is worse than the crime. But seems like he was caught in a lie to protect his image. He had to know his decision was gonna piss people off. Especially with snubbing his home town crowd in favor of the bigger platform in New York. so he tried to deflect it and make it seem as if the choice really wasn't his. But Elway came out publicly after the "lie" and said he in fact DID have a choice. There really is no reason for Elway to lie about it. He loses nothing if he admits he chose New York because it was a better deal for the team. (Though most of what I read said Jacksonville actually offered the better 4th rounder.) So he does come across as being one of those who will say what they need to to protect their image. When you have made millions off your squeaky clean image, I can see why he'd be so protective with it. Another example, Tebow was once out trolling with some scantilly dressed Broadway chicks. One posted the pic, and Tebow's handlers threatened the girl with a lawsuit and had the image removed. On the surface, Tebow hanging out with them wasn't a big deal. The pic itself wasn't even that bad. I shrugged my shoulders at that one until I heard about the handlers demanding it be removed. Why don't they want anyone to see it? Like I said, nothing wrong with the pic itself. I thought it made him look more human and more like the rest of us. But as usual, the coverup is always worse than the crime. Suddenly his handlers had to try to have the pic yanked off the internet? Eventually the girl removed it, but enough people already had the image by then. I guess why that story and the one about him having a choice of teams and him trying to deflect it.... well.... look, like I said, he's made a pretty good living off that squeaky clean image. Now things have to be hidden and deflected? When that happens, he starts to come across as a bit of a phony. If anything, I thought it made him look more like the rest of us. But then the denials come about him choosing New York even though he said he wanted it for the platform, the coverups over "not really that bad of a photo" comes out, or even that meeting with Rex about being a "normal" QB and not a wildcat package utility player is downplayed or denied. Instead of playing it as he is human and has his own ideas, we are instead sold this image again that Tebow is really some automated god-bot. What is wrong with this picture anyway. I saw no problem with it until they demanded it be yanked off the internet. These were broadway actresses, not even real strippers.
Khan is doing what he can with the Jags given limited depth and poor community support. TT got caught like some of the others did. They thought he was the one who did not want to draft Tebow and that he was behind the "I can't see a scenarion where Tim is a jaguar..." quote. Khan has no problem with Tim, but his fans often mistakenly think he does and start the whole "he is jealous, just like Woody, afraid of winning, mindless robot like the rest of the owners, blah blah blah.
