The Jets and Mark Sanchez, an experiment in how not to develop a QB

Discussion in 'New York Jets' started by Barry the Baptist, Dec 3, 2012.

  1. Barry the Baptist

    Barry the Baptist Hello son, would you like a lolly?
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2003
    Messages:
    17,746
    Likes Received:
    1,572
    It's the morning after and we're sitting on our couches, in our offices, at our cubicles, on our phones all wondering how something, sombody, a team filled with so much promise can all go so bad so quickly. It wasn't always this bad... or was it and we just missed it? Now with the Sanchez era on life support and the team stuck with seemingly no light at the end of the tunnel we are all asking the question... How?

    To begin to wonder why you have to look at Sanchez and ask the question, is he capable of being a starting QB in this league? I think he does, the problem is I don't know if he thinks he does. It's quite evident his confidence is shot and it appears damaged beyond repair. We all remember the cocky, arrogant kid eating a hot dog on the sideline in Oakland and saying "That's my QB" . Where is the Sanchez the QB doing the airplane celebration? Where is the kid who was inspired by his father a firefighter in Orange County and will he ever come back?

    Let's go back to his rookie year and the players the team put around him. His OL was a who's who of pro bowlers... Alan Faneca, Nick Mangold, Brick, Woody and Moore. Quite possibly the best OL in football. His WR's while not stellar were solid led by Braylon Edwards. His TE's where the athletic and versatile Dustin Keller and the vanilla big blocking Hartsock. Maybe most importanly he had Tony Richardson who brought his military upbringing and leadership to the huddle and Thomas Jones who was the leading rusher in the NFL. Jones also allowed the rookie Shonn Greene to stay fresh for the postseason run and carry the team into the AFC title game. The team allowed a rookie to have the support to learn the game and protect him while doing so.

    Entering that offseason we added Santonio Holmes and then blew draft picks on Kyle Wilson and in the pick that is evident of a GM and organization that felt they were better then they actually were a "project" from a small D1AA school in Vlad Ducasse. We also added Jason Taylor who while unpopular with many fans was a force and really helped the defense along with Trevor Price who was signed midseason. We added Cromartie as well but allowed an aging Faneca to walk, Jay Feely to walk, and Howard Green who later went to Green Bay and not only helped the Packers beat us but also won a SB.

    We knocked on the door once again but ultimately fell short, the following offseason I believe is where the wheels began to fall off. People will be quick to say "well Edwards obviously isn't that good because he hasn't done anything since he left". Does that really matter? He had great chemistry with Sanchez, was the ultimate team guy and he had maybe the best seasons of his career with the Jets those 2 years he was here. Cotchery was allowed to leave, Woody retired, Taylor walked away, Pryce was not brought back, Richardson retired, Ellis, Ihedigbo, Lowery, Drew Coleman all allowed to leave or traded. Once again people will say well those guys haven't done anything anyplace else but they were good system guys and they bought into Rex, Mark and the system and some of thme were leaders. Things started well but the fatal flaws in this team were exposed in the Ravens Sunday night game and the team never recovered.

    This past offseason the final man who had an ounce of leadership on the offense left in his body Ladanian Tomlinson retired. The team again failed to improve along the OL and here we are. Sanchez is shot, he has no weapons, no OL and no longer does he have the trust of the coaching staff. Will he have it back? The Magic 8 Ball says "Outlook Cloudy"

    Sanchez has played poor but when you sit and wonder how a guy in his 4th year could possibly be the worst starting QB in the NFL right now there has to be blame placed all over the organization and not just on Mark. He has to own up to his poor play but when you allow his best weapons, in Edwards, a solid OL and good defense to go by wayside the guy is going to struggle. It never should have been this bad so quick but the team and their lack of putting the best supporting cast around Mark has contributed to his fall from grace.

    Yes Sanchez deserves much of the blame because he is the guy making poor reads, underthrowing balls and not showing leadership but when you look at who we lost over the 4 years he has been on this team and who we replaced them with it's an epic failure on an entire organization.
     
  2. Hobbes3259

    Hobbes3259 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2005
    Messages:
    15,454
    Likes Received:
    393
    It's also the playcalling.

    Sparano is an upgrade over Schotty, but we need a real OC.
     
  3. No Fly Zone

    No Fly Zone Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2011
    Messages:
    1,572
    Likes Received:
    1,240

    Sporano has set modern football back 10 years. Shotty could at least design plays. He couldn't call a game for shit but he did have some modern play designs.

    Neither is an OC imho.
     
  4. jerseyjay14

    jerseyjay14 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2009
    Messages:
    5,138
    Likes Received:
    1,115
    really? alot of people are wondering this? i dont think its a shock or anyone didnt see this coming. we sold out to try to make a run in 2010 and fell short and paid for it. when we couldnt surround mark with top talent to mask him, he dragged us down to a bad/average team.

    i dont really see the shock.

    as far as developing mark, not much you can really do. tried different coordinators, different recivers, tried making him a game manager then let him air it out. the guy just isnt good
     
  5. Br4d

    Br4d 2018 Weeb Ewbank Award

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2004
    Messages:
    36,670
    Likes Received:
    14,472
    Good original post. This isn't just the end of the Sanchez era. It's finally the end of the Bradway/Tannenbaum era. Everything that is wrong with the Jets right now flows out of a cocky, quirky front office that has contempt for the way good NFL organizations are run and a determination to do it their own way even though that way is fatally flawed.

    Need a hole filled? Go get a post-prime vet and fill it. Don't look at what the roster will look like two years down the road just fill the hole today.

    Have a guy you really want to draft? Go up and get him. Don't look at what the roster will look like two years down the road just go get your guy today.

    See somebody who really wows you at the combine? Don't worry about all the things that have led up to that moment, you're looking at him right now and he looks great. Make sure you get a shot at drafting him even if it costs you several other prospects in the process.

    One of your guys is not working out? Stick with him until he forces you to cut him. Cutting a guy you invested in is a sign of weakness and it makes you look bad. If you just hold onto him for another year he might develop and then nobody will remember how much the pick cost you earlier. it worked with Bryan Thomas didn't it?

    Another team approaches you about passing the trash? Hey if they're willing to give up talent that's their problem not mine, grab the guy quick before they change their mind.

    It's just mind-boggling how arrogant the Jets are in the decisions they make. Like they think they're re-inventing the wheel when in fact they're just churning for head lines.
     
  6. Barry the Baptist

    Barry the Baptist Hello son, would you like a lolly?
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2003
    Messages:
    17,746
    Likes Received:
    1,572
    I think we've seen Mark play very good... that 1st Pats game of his 2nd year. The game Revis pulled his hammy he was incredible. Why? Because he had guys who believed in him and he believed in them. Consistency was always the issue with Mark but consistency works both ways. He needs to be able to develop consistency with his WR's and coaches. Maybe I'm crazy but I think this team is completely different if Braylon Edwards was resigned instead of Holmes.

    I'm not defending Mark because this year has been unbearable to watch especially the last 2 weeks but his failure is also an organizational failure. The Ducasse pick is evident of that. They knew Fanecca was done so rather then address that they were arrogant enough to take a "project".
     
  7. JetsVilma28

    JetsVilma28 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2005
    Messages:
    8,721
    Likes Received:
    1,923
    What did we give up for Braylon? A 3rd and a 5th? I know it was something like that.

    Nice investment Tanny :up:

    Front load money to the bum, Holmes. Pin captain on his chest and have soft ass sanchez try to manage gangster ass huddle by including Burress in the mix, fresh out of jail Yo! Thug Life!

    Sanchez, has become more and more of a puss. Really, at the start of 2011 season I thought he looked to be oozing with confidence. He played one heck of a game in Oakland, but Mangold was injured in the process. The trip to Baltimore was an absolute disaster to his psyche, then New England.

    Sanchez, isn't a leader though. He doesn't command a huddle, make proper reads at the line of scrimmage, ball fake, or seem to have ability to manage offensive game plan. He has physical abilities, no doubt, it's his mental weakness that cost him his job.

    It reminds me of Kyle Boller in Baltimore. Over coached, not allowed to make decisions on his own. Probably, put behind center too early. No, commanding presence in the huddle. just weak, soft and sorry.
     
    #7 JetsVilma28, Dec 3, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2012
  8. hazmat

    hazmat New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2004
    Messages:
    3,227
    Likes Received:
    0
    The real issue is that Rex and Sanchez from the start were oil and water.

    It's not Sanchez fault that he wound up in this situation, it is his fault that he is mr. turnover.

    The Jets hired Rex Ryan to be their head coach. Knowing that you are getting a first time head coach who is the son of Buddy Ryan you should be building an offense that that the first priority is to not lose the game through turnovers. Meanwhile the Jets traded multiple picks for a risky QB who didn't play a lot in college.

    What were they expecting to happen? When you draft a QB that high you better go all in or else people are going to get fired. They never went all in with Sanchez.

    Trading for guys like Holmes and Edwards does not help a QB to develop. Expecting that Wayne Hunter and Austin Howard could be competent starters is a joke.

    The Jets never should have drafted Sanchez. They should have signed some veteran QB to manage the game and not turn the ball over. It's pretty obvious that whenever this current Jets team plays clean football they can play with anyone. But almost every week the QB has 2+ turnovers, someone fumbles and the special teams gives up a big play. It's like boxing with one hand.

    I don't know where they go from here but I have no confidence in this front office or coaching staff in finding and developing a QB.
     
  9. Barry the Baptist

    Barry the Baptist Hello son, would you like a lolly?
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2003
    Messages:
    17,746
    Likes Received:
    1,572
    You essentially summed up my entire post with one sentence. They drafted the guy and continued to replace the most important parts of the offense around him. It's like buying a Mercedes and taking it to the discount auto repair shop to get the upkeep done on it. Why buy the Mercedes if you are going to replace all the Mercedes parts with cheap ones that don't mesh?

    They gave away a 3rd and 5th for Edwards, they traded away Leon Washington and replaced him with McKnight who is a good ST player but not Leon Washington who is an all time great KR. Tony Richardson was replaced with John Connor. They knew Fanecca and Woody and now Moore were up there in age yet we have drafted one OL since Mark's rookie year and he was a project. We have signed no vets to the OL that could be counted on. And we have also failed to address the backup QB issue, yes Brunnell never really had a shot to play but he was a good mentor for Sanchez.
     
  10. NYCKNP

    NYCKNP Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2012
    Messages:
    349
    Likes Received:
    4
    Even though Mark has played like crap this season, you make a really good point. This is the reason why Tanny and the entire FO needs to be dismissed. As for Mark, his confidence is pretty much dead. If the NFL had a minor league system, Mark would immediately be sent to developmental and remain there until he is ready to be called up.
     
  11. Ben Had

    Ben Had Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2011
    Messages:
    906
    Likes Received:
    84
    I got banned here (for 2 weeks) for trying to tell you guys Sporano was going to dumb down the offense!

    How anyone would want him for OC is beyond me. He can really screw up an offensive line also:eek:hmy:
     
  12. Organized Chaos

    Organized Chaos Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2009
    Messages:
    2,551
    Likes Received:
    87
    The Jets actually needed Pennington after they traded him away. If he way healthy (lol). He would have fit the 2009 team perfectly.

    I cant knock the Favre move though, Farve obviously had something left in the tank. Too bad he got injured.

    Im not sure what else the jets could have done in 2009, but Sanchez surely wasnt a good call in retrospect.
     
  13. BrowningNagle

    BrowningNagle Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2003
    Messages:
    26,113
    Likes Received:
    26,920
    This is a great post Barry, I fully agree.

    Regardless of Sanchez's failings the Front Office and Staff hasn't done him any favors either. They wrote the book on how NOT to develop a Young QB, and this extends beyond just roster decisions.

    They don't even play to his strengths!

    For example, Two things that Sanchez has shown he can actually do well, since even his rookie year is -
    1.Throwing the quick slant pass (he was at his best when throwing the Quick slant to Braylon)
    2.Throwing on the run/roll out.

    Yet the Jets hardly EVER do these things anymore. Mark Sanchez struggles immensely when throwing touch passes like screens, outside corner routes, up and overs... YET the Jets call those plays more than any!! Are you kidding me, its like they are doing the opposite of what he's good at.

    At what point do you acknowledge that he's not improving/flawed and just do what you can with his strengths/avoiding his weaknesses?

    He's better with quick hitters, rollouts, passes where he can just fire it in and not have to worry so much about touch - - - SO, idk maybe RUN Them????

    Another Something to add that I find absolutely mind-boggling is that Mark Sanchez has had the same QBs coach (Matt Cavanaugh) his whole career.

    He's struggled and even regressed with ball protection, decision making and making reads --- 3 things the QBs coach is supposed to help the most with!!!

    His whole career this has been a problem yet there's no recognition that maybe he could use someone else to help with this, a different set of eyes, a different approach?????

    At this point, these points are kind of moot because he's played his way out of NY, sure, but its too easy to lay it all on him - Organizationally the Jets failed big time from top to bottom with Sanchez..
     
  14. JetsKickAss

    JetsKickAss Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2004
    Messages:
    6,478
    Likes Received:
    1,568
    No, he's a downgrade.
     
  15. JetsKickAss

    JetsKickAss Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2004
    Messages:
    6,478
    Likes Received:
    1,568
    Great OP, and I might add that beginning in 2011 that 3 of his Top 4 WR's from his first 2 years were gone.

    GONE !!!

    Just what a young QB needs...constant volatility in personnel.
     
  16. JetsKickAss

    JetsKickAss Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2004
    Messages:
    6,478
    Likes Received:
    1,568
    Have you checked his stats in the 6 playoff games, the biggest games this team has played in years ????

    How'd he do ??????

    Was he the reason we lost ????

    Did he stink up the joint like Matt Ryan and Andy Dalton ????
     
  17. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2004
    Messages:
    27,067
    Likes Received:
    14,297
    This is a good post, but I feel all of this is crystal clear to see. Even the casual fan could see every single wrong move the Jets were making and how it was setting Sanchez up to fail. It has truly been pathetic to witness.
     
  18. Barry the Baptist

    Barry the Baptist Hello son, would you like a lolly?
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2003
    Messages:
    17,746
    Likes Received:
    1,572
    I think it goes beyond the WR corp. Look at the OL. For every player we either released/traded or that retired we have downgraded with the exception of maybe slot WR.

    OG Fanecca > Slausen/Ducasse
    RT Woody > Hunter/Howard

    RB Jones> Greene
    FB Richardson > Connor/Hilliard
    3rd down back Leon Washington> Joe McKnight

    #1 WR Edwards > Holmes
    #2 WR Holmes > Hill/Burress
    #3 WR Cotchery barely over Kerley
    #4 WR Brad Smith > whatever we are throwing out there


    Wildcat QB Brad Smith > Tebow

    Just to think about the unreal dropoff in talent we have had in just 2 years I'm sure everybody remembers the game Brad Smith had over the Bengals on Thanksgiving 2 years ago. The guy was a role player yet he single handidly beat the Bengals that night. I can't see one player on this team doing anything like that.

    It's not surprising to see the struggles this team has offensively when you just compare the talent from 3 years ago to now. Yes Sanchez has regressed to embarrasing levels and he absolutely deserves to be benched but Tannenbaum and Rex have absolutely failed to put any sort of team around him. People will say good QB's make people around them better and that is true but Sanchez isn't a good QB. He is average QB that needed good players around him to succeed and he did when he had good players around him, he had the occasional crap game but he also had games where you thought he could be elite. It's irrespsonsible that the FO allowed anything he had to work with go away and replace it with cheap imports. Like I said, I wouldn't buy a Mercedes and take it to get serviced at a Kia Dealership, if you invest in a high priced luxury car you have to maintain it by servicing it with luxury maintnence.
     
  19. Lo_gan_7

    Lo_gan_7 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2012
    Messages:
    51
    Likes Received:
    0
    I always felt, coming from an outside the fanbase point of view, a big problem was that Sanchez had a very loose and at times playful personality. That works when you're surrounded by hard nosed vets like the original poster listed, but I'm not sure it inspires confidence in a team of tough image when that player is now expected to be the leader on offense.
     
  20. United_Jets

    United_Jets Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2003
    Messages:
    1,301
    Likes Received:
    0
    I agree completely Barry the Baptist. Management has completely failed Sanchez just as he's failed them. I remember seeing that graphic on Thanksgiving that said how our receiving corps is comfortably the least experienced in the NFL.
    Sanchez is the most talented QB we have, and can look like a franchise QB on a good day. But his inability to deal with cracks in the offence elsewhere means he's not good enough. Injuries are unfortunate but inevitable and you aren't always going to come out of the offseason with all-star talent. There's just too much competition in the league for that.
    Number 1 to blame is Tanny and whatever role Rex has in talent evaluation. But the thing that bugs me about Sanchez is he's not showing the fight that gave us his best performances under huge pressure in the playoffs, rather he's just completely crumbled under it the last 2 seasons and it's hard not to buy into the 'mentally fragile' reports as a result.
    Mark's inability to deal with pressure correctly is absurd for a 4th year QB. Defences have figured out that he's incapable of finding the hole in the zone or the open man when they bring 5+.
    Because of his contract he's going to get a chance to compete in TC next year and I'm happy with that. But we should give McIllroy a chance to show us what he's got the rest of the season as the playoffs are gone barring a complete and utter collapse from Indy/Pitt.
    I desperately hope we go into preseason next year with a great draft prospect (unlikely) or a proven Vet (stumping for Alex Smith anyone?) competing beside Sanchez. But Barry is right, this offence needs a whole lot of talent elsewhere to have a shot next year
     

Share This Page