Tebow Trade Rumors?

Discussion in 'Tebowmania' started by BJXX, Oct 22, 2012.

  1. Jim-Jet

    Jim-Jet Banned

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    Some of those series were 1st, 2nd and 3rd down. Not all. The point was you said they "Hardly Ever" went run run pass. You are clearly wrong. I gave you two games - one by mistake.

    No one dreamed this - it is the game logs you have been chirping about.
     
  2. JaxSuzy

    JaxSuzy Banned

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    YES this ^^^^^ I've posted about this on TGG before. I wonder if they'd left it alone would he have corrected it somehow on his own thru trial and error. But since they did mess with it I hope he does a million reps til its burned into his muscle memory.

    Don't laugh but when I first started bowling I had the wrong fingers in the holes. I did OK for a girl with a high game of 185. Later I had some lessons and found out I was doing everything wrong, including my stride and approach. Took me quite a while before the "correct" way felt right and my average crept back up. I hope it starts to feel natural to Tebow soon. I wish he'd hire a left-handed QB coach during the off season. And get a left-handed football too (jk).
     
  3. Backup QB

    Backup QB Active Member

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    And left-handed receivers... :smile:
     
  4. JaxSuzy

    JaxSuzy Banned

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    LOL lefty receivers would love that left-handed spiral
     
  5. SkipBayless

    SkipBayless New Member

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    I like stats

    2011 Breakdown of 5 Player's Pass Attempts During the Season. This breakdown will explain Tebow's completion percentage and question if the offense scheme was fair.

    Example: QB X throws 10 passes (attempts not completions). 3 pass attempts of 1-10 yds. 3 out of 10 is 30% or .30.

    Longer pass attempts are harder to complete.
    Shorter ones are easier to complete.

    *ESPN Player Pages were used for data.
    *Percents are converted into decimals

    Player Bank: Eli Manning, Mark Sanchez, Cam Newton, Tim Tebow

    Eli Manning 61.0 CMP% 1)
    588 Attempts: (Longer .022) (31 – 40 .037) (21 – 30 .107)
    (11 – 20 .243) (1 – 10 .425) (Behind the Line .165)

    Mark Sanchez 56.7 CMP% 2)
    542 Attempts: (Longer .0055) (31 – 40 .016) (21 – 30 .07)
    (11 – 20 .249) (1 – 10 .523) Behind the Line .134

    Tim Tebow 46.5 CMP% 3)
    269 Attempts: (Longer .0185) (31 – 40 .078) (21 – 30 .118)
    (11 – 20 .312) (1 – 10 .353) (Behind the Line .119)

    Cam Newton 60.0 CMP% 4)
    516 Attempts: (Longer .0193) (31 – 40 .029) (21 – 30 .109)
    (11 – 20 .275) (1 – 10 .366) (Behind the Line .20)



    Tim Tebow had 32 attempts of the 21 to 30 pass yardage variety. Sanchez had 38. Why did Tebow’s play caller, McCoy, create so many deep plays? If a QR is not accurate you create short passes. Tebow had 269 attempts and Sanchez had 542, so roughly double. From a play calling perspective, how does this make sense? Tebow had 21 attempts of the 31-40 variety while Sanchez had 9 attempts in twice as many throws (Manning had 22 and Newton had 15). This explains Tebow’s low completion percentage. The longer the pass attempt the lower the percentage of a possible completion. Tebow did not get the shorter pass players to boost his CMP % like Sanchez.
     
  6. CowboysFan

    CowboysFan Banned

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    Skip ( or researcher for skip) good to see you on here ( hope you drop in more than you did in the Broncos forums ).

    I remember Elway explaining this in detail after the season ended in a press conference . He referenced the fact that Tebow's completion percentage was what he expected because of the amount of long pass attempts he had.

    Of course Elway is a HOF QB and knows what he is talking about but hardly anyone covered it. If I was not watching the press conference myself I would have missed it . I was hoping you guys would cover it on first take but you never did .

    Keep up the entertaining work , love the show .
     
  7. reverseapachemaster

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    I like enchiladas.
     
  8. Demosthenes9

    Demosthenes9 Well-Known Member

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    McCoy and Fox "changed" the offense by adding in a number of option plays and changing the play calling mix. It's laughable, to me, to see people talking about how "McCoy scrapped the entire offense and made up a new one for Tebow". That just simply wasn't the case. Cam Newton and RGIII's offenses are much more tailored to their abilities.

    The type of offense that Tebow would thrive in right now is a Spread Option offense like he ran at Florida. It's a hybrid offense that marries an Option rushing attack with a Spread passing attack.


    Quick little bit of history for you. Guess who Urban Meyer learned much of his passing attack from ? From Scott Linehan, who was the Offensive Coordinator at the University of Louisville at the time. The very same Scott Linehan who is the OC up in Detroit right now with Matt Stafford running their Spread passing attack.

    The rushing component of his offense is modeled on tried and true "normal NFL" philosophies. All he did was tweak the plays a bit so that they could be run from the shotgun, and added the option element, which gives defenses even more things to think about.

    Consider this: Tebow in shotgun, RB to his right and you run Zone read with RB hitting the left side of the line. People scream "the option doesn't work in the NFL, all the defense has to do is cover their responsibility, it's assignment football".

    Now, let's look at the actual play. QB in gun. QB takes snap. QB hands ball to RB crossing in front on him. Funny, Tom Brady and Aaron Rodgers run that play quite a few times every weekend and you don't hear people talking about how it won't work in the NFL. Running that exact same play adding an Option component to it increases the complexity and adds more stress to the defense, as they now have to cover BOTH the RB and the QB.

    Or how about a toss sweep ? Yep, you see it every weekend in the NFL. QB takes the snap (either from under center of in the gun), turns to his right and tosses the ball to the RB who then looks for a hole. Compare that to speed option where the QB takes the snap, runs to the right, then
    "reads" the defender and either keeps the ball or tosses it to the trailing RB. Yep, the very same "toss sweep" with an added element that the defense must account for.

    We can do this with just about every "traditional" NFL running play that you want to look at. Or, you can go the other way and look at just about every single running play from Meyer's Spread Option playbook and you can find the "normal NFL run" that each of them is based off of.

    hell, take a look at QB power that Tebow runs so well. That's a ball carrier, a leading blocker and a pulling guard or tackle. It's an NFL staple play, Power O (or Bob O). We could also look at Trap, Counter, Counter Trap, Lead Open, Lead Strong, Inside Zone, Outside zone, yada, yada, yada.
     
  9. phaytal

    phaytal New Member

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    You clearly have no clue what you are talking about. Here is the play-by-play. Denver vs Detroit had exactly 1 run, run, pass series. Apparently you have no fucking clue what a series is.

    That link shows, without dispute, that McCoy called 1 run, run, pass series in the entire game.The rest of the season was very, very similar. These are indisputable facts.

    Eagerly awaiting your next bullshit excuse.
     
  10. phaytal

    phaytal New Member

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    Too bad Tim hasn't improved a single thing during his 3 years in the league.
     
  11. JaxSuzy

    JaxSuzy Banned

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    Great analysis and absolutely true. But then you started naming all these plays like the Counter Trap, Inside Zone, etc. and my head started spinning. Could we just run the Sgt. York LOL?
     
  12. JFjets

    JFjets New Member

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    I remember well when Elway said that.
     
  13. Bannon

    Bannon New Member

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    The Detroit game was a rough day at the office for Tebow, to me. Detroit was playing pretty good, they were scoring points, and I think the idea was to challenge Tebow and see if he could go full on. He was not up to it that day -- his mechanics were still not conducive, and they weren't able to get it done. The offensive line wasn't lights out in pass protection yet, either -- early in his rookie year, Orlando Franklin was a turnstyle at right tackle, and they were having to make all sorts of adjustments in pass pro. It's easy to blame everything on Tebow, but sometimes when you have rookies like Orlando Franklin, and young receivers like Decker and Thomas, the plays don't run in sync.

    But here's the thing -- I don't get why Tebow is forever blasted for that game, when quarterbacks have had much worse statistical (and losing) performances and people can just write that off. Sanchez has had multiple games this year where he threw a lower completion percentage, for less yards, and more INT's. In this his fourth year! So it happens -- what you look for is a consistent downward trend that doesn't turn upwards. But if a young QB has that performance and then has a better one after, you're still in the learning curve.
     
    #153 Bannon, Oct 25, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2012
  14. Concerned_Citizen

    Concerned_Citizen New Member

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    Call it what you want. I saw them drastically reduce passing attempts and went HEAVILY into the running game. They almost completely eliminated the passes from the 5 to 12 yard range because his timing was almost always late. Most of his pass plays were very long or very short. Not only did he get a lot of long balls, he also led the league in pass plays that went for negative yardage.

    Much of the passing game had been eliminated. My opinion is that most of that was because of Tebow's limitations in that department.

    If he ever gets that down pat, he might end up being one of the most dangerous players in the game. But I've seen nothing in his two years in Denver... nor the plays since he went to New York that makes me believe that is happening any time soon.
     
  15. phaytal

    phaytal New Member

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  16. BroncosFan1345

    BroncosFan1345 New Member

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    Agreed.....
     
  17. Concerned_Citizen

    Concerned_Citizen New Member

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    Agree to an extent... Tim Tebow did change the schematics of the running game. They were near the bottom of the league in that prior to the switch. That was something he did well.

    unfortunately, it didn't make up for the offense being at the bottom of just about every major passing stat in the league. They still ranked around 25 in total offense.

    It certainly did enough to win the close games when the defense allowed around 10 points though.
     
  18. Bannon

    Bannon New Member

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    Tebow's style of passing (and late game heroics) was very conducive to the only winning formula available to the Broncos at that time.

    To run an offense like that, i.e. run-oriented, you need a quarterback who is at least competent at downfield, chunk yardage pass plays. Because when you run so much, the box becomes very, very crowded. The first 10 yard passes and even screens become much harder to run. What happens is you hit it, and hit it and hit it with the run, and then throw the long ones over the top. (That includes 20 yard passes, not just bombs). You're going to hit a lower percentage of those (even with non-Tebow at QB), but you're going to get more yards for each completion.

    The additional thing you add to the formula is the ability for the quarterback to run around and find something as a secondary play -- the receivers work open.

    The final element is late game drives -- a running quarterback like Tebow is very hard to stop for one drive, because you can spread it out and let him either pass it or run it (at a pace that he couldn't do for 60 minutes).

    So Tebow was very, very good at some things that go well with that style -- good long ball passer, good scrambler, and good "one drive" QB. It caused him to throw for a lower percentage -- he might could have hit 52% or something if that was the goal.

    Admittedly, Tebow was not good at some things you need to be able to also do -- there are times when you need to make a precision, first read, and let 'er rip quickly and accurately. And he didn't do that well. He did at times -- I still remember some throws that made me proud. But not enough to build a reliable, predictable offense around. He'll have to get better -- but he doesn't have to be near the top in the league at that particular aspect. He's got the other things already mentioned above.
     
  19. Concerned_Citizen

    Concerned_Citizen New Member

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    At the time, yes. The PROBLEM is that most didn't think it was sustainable. A couple years prior to that, the Broncos won a lot of games in similar fashion going 6-0. Even won on a miracle play against Cincinatti with the immaculate deflection into Stokley.

    Few people were praising Orton, people were honest back then and called it pure dumb luck. Even as they went 6-0, there was some euphoria, but most kinda looked at it and though... there's no way this was going to continue.... and it didn't. they won 2 more games all year going 8-8 and missing the playoffs.

    The win streak of last year had the same feel to it.


    Many Tebow followers admitted the same thing. The argument was that eventually through his heart and desire, that he would improve all those things (given an undisclosed amount of time) and that if we just stuck with him until who knows when... he'd eventually justify it. They've point to every late bloomer ever to play in the league.

    But I saw no signs of improvment as the season went on. Sure, he looked better passing the ball than hed did against Miami and Detroit, but I thought he had regressed from the 3 games the season before and merely recaptured he so so passing that he displayed in the 3 games the year before.

    For every late bloomer story... there are a hundred QBs to come and go throughout the history of the league few have heard of, and just faded out of history having never come close to their potential. I'm not so certain Tebow isn't one of those guys (at least as a QB.) Thus, I didn't want to waste another year or two to see if he ever developed a passing skill he probably should have had a decent handle on before he ever left college.

    Wouldn't have minded him sitting behind Manning a couple years and did other things during that wait time, but politics probably would have created too big of a distraction.
     
  20. danangmarine68

    danangmarine68 New Member

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    Okay, that makes you a member of the Atari Generation. :)

    I only asked because your posts look like someone more comfortable with texting rather than typing. As a senile citizen reading your posts can present some interesting comprehension on my part. Lets just say I was in my early 20s in Vietnam.

    SF
     

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