The point of my post was that it took 8 pages and 170-something posts for Tebow supporters to finally give Sanchez credit. Normally, that wouldn't really be an issue, except the thread's subject is a comparison between the two QBs. How is the discussion a comparison between them when the first 8 pages are all about Tebow and his accomplishments while ignoring Sanchez's? It took my post - calling out the issue - for people to finally start mentioning Sanchez in a thread that is supposed to be comparing Tebow and.....Sanchez.
I am guilty of a clumsy thread title my point was if both QBs sucked then Sporano cold be the real culprit .
So on one hand you want to compare Sanchez's third year to Tebow's 1st 16 starts...On the surface I could accept that... The only thing is that you posted this in another thread... ^^Here, you dismiss the numbers I compared between 7 prominent young QB's (to include Sanchez) with Tebow's, because most of Tebow's 16 starts came in his second year. Very interesting.... :lol:
I was not comparing just anaylzing the numbers individually. First 16 starts you are comparing stats over multiple season that makes even less sense. What did each QB do last season you are correct in that Mark has been in the league a little longer his stats should be better but lets not compare. The fact is Tebow threw for a 46% completion percentage last season to be considered a top tier QB in the modern NFL you need to be around 60% he is not even close. As I have stated Tebow is not a passer than can run he is run that can occasionally make a good throw. If Tebow progresses like most runners he will be done around 30 being an effective runner. Will a GM invest in Tebow if his main asset is running history tells running Qbs dont last in this league and are often injured. You cant swap out your QB like a running back. If the Qb is injured you just switch back to a conventional offense you need two Tebows. You also have to consider most WRs are divas and dont want to play in running QB centric offense. Do you want to be the running back on a team when the star runner is the Qb? So unless Tebow can improve his throwing dramatically he will not be a the main QB for any team.
The overwhelming majority of even Tebow's most fervent fans recognize this. On the other hand it's probably reasonable to think he doesn't need to reach elite passer status to be a viable starting QB. With his ability to make plays with his feet, if he's at around 56%-59%, he could probably be very effective as a starting QB and take another team to the playoffs.
The reason Tim Tebow doesn't throw a lot of interceptions at this point is that he doesn't throw all that many passes to start with and the anticipated throws by the defense are probably lower than against any other QB in the NFL. Defenses don't expect Tebow to throw the ball, because the offenses he runs don't throw all that much. This gives him a lot of single coverage to work against and it makes his deep game more effective than it normally would be. Based on what I've observed this camp I feel pretty confident in saying that if Tebow had a normal offensive pattern that he was used in, passing on 1st down, running on 2nd, that kind of thing, and he threw a normal number of passes he would also throw a very high number of interceptions in the process. His mechanics often tip off where he's going with the ball because he stares receivers down and then takes an unusually long time to get rid of the ball after he's done that. He doesn't have good positional awareness at all and some of his worst throws this camp have come when he was running to his right and throwing back to his left, another pattern that defenders will use to jump routes. His accuracy is really bad also and a few of the throws have basically been right to a defender when if he was throwing at a receiver the guy was not within 10 yards of where the ball wound up. I understand that I sound like a broken record on this and I'm probably pissing the Tebow fans off in the process. The issue that I have is that the Jets are my team and have been my team for 40 years now. I've seen them do some really bone-headed things in that time, sometimes looking for inspiration and at others just flat-out boneheaded. Getting Tebow was a little of both. Having him play QB is more than a little of both. If I saw anything that suggested to me that Tebow could become an NFL QB with some training and time to mature into the role I'd have no problem with him being on the Jets. I just don't see it. He's doing the same really bad things now that he was doing at Florida. The difference is that he wasn't playing against NFL players at Florida. He has to figure this out in a hurry, because his career is going by at lightning speed. Yet the feeling I get from his interviews is that he's just planning to go out on the field and do the same things that have made him successful in the past and somehow the fact that he's in the NFL isn't going to matter. He's going to be on the field for my team at the most important position and yet he thinks it is ok to just do what he's done because he's special somehow. I got news for all of you. There is nothing special about Tim Tebow that isn't going to get shut down by Bill Belichik (and already has) and if he gets shut down by Belichik there is no reason for him to be on the field for the Jets. Woody Johnson has a man-crush on him. That's going to make both of them feel really bad when the fans are booing Tebow off the field, and it's going to happen.
Don't have much argument with your objective statements. Your feelings about Tebow, especially the last few paragraphs are just that, your feelings. But I can understand why a die-hard Jets fan who wasn't a Tebow fan would feel that way. On the other hand, if he had landed on my team, the Vikings, I'd be as psyched as you are gloomy. Not that there would be any more reason for me feel that way than you feeling the way you feel (perhaps less). I "feel" like the guy's worked extremely hard, has willingly accepted the role he's been given and willingly accepted taking a ton of snaps under center, which to me shows both his and the Jets' coaches are committed to doing what it takes for him to improve for the future while also contributing to the team this season. Yep, his window for figuring it out is closing. He may end up out of the NFL in a couple years. On the other hand...
Completely leaves out the notion that the coverages he faces ALSO have to do with his threat to just pull the ball down and run it. News at 11: Young QB with few starts under his belt stares down receivers. Most young QB's do this of course. Hell, Sanchez still does it. As for Tebow's release, it's faster than it was before, and I am sure that his speed will get even faster. Actually, his accuracy has been much improved, as has his consistency. If you think he's throwing now, the same way he threw at Florida, then either you didn't watch him closely at Florida, or you don't know what you are talking about. The difference is night and day. Ball is carried higher. Motion has been shortened. Release is faster. Accuracy is better (overall). Footwork is much improved. This is borderline delusional. The kid has worked hard to change his mechanics, footwork, timing, accuracy, consistency, yada, yada, yada. It's pure bullshit to say that he hasn't done anything, but that he thinks he's just going to walk onto the field and everything will be ok.
I think most likely because Tebow is the one with something to prove, pretty much everyone understands where Sanchez is, and what he has done. the question mark is Tebow and his development. Most Tebow fans(at least the rational ones) are in the Mark should be the starter, he is the better QB right now, I hope Tebow can improve to be a NFL QB camp.
You're calling somebody else borderline delusional when you repeatedly suggest that Tebow can play QB in the NFL? Really? How bad does he have to look? How completely pathetic do his throws have to be? How rattled does he have to get as he runs around in the pocket before you recognize that he's just not cut out for this? Yes, he has a good throw now and then. Yes, he pulls the ball down and runs well. Those aren't facets of an NFL QB. An NFL QB makes good throws as a rule and every once in a while makes the kind of really bad throw that Tebow makes randomly every other throw or so. He's just not an NFL QB. There's nothing that anybody can say to convince me otherwise. The only thing that will convince me otherwise is if he starts playing well and so far he has played below the inadequate expectations I had for him. I figured he might be a 48% passer. Maybe even 50%. Those numbers wouldn't be good enough to play QB for the Jets, or anywhere else in the NFL, but they'd be consistent progress on what he'd shown so far. Instead he completes under 40% of his throws against scrubs, where he should actually look good, rise above the chaff so to speak. He looks completely lost in the pocket. Not lost as in a bit slow to react, lost as in he has no clue what is happening half the time. I mean, good lord, what does it take before even his most ardent fans recognize that he is not cut out for the QB position in the NFL? It is not a running position. It is a passing position and being at least an adequate passer is the minimum competency required to play.
Ummm, yes, I am. And if you go back and look at his throws in this preseason, you'll see that most of them were good throws. Sure, he's made some mistakes, and I think he overthrew 3 passes right up until the 4 shots down field at the end of the Giants game. Again, go back and look at the passes that he has thrown. Most of them have been accurate and on target. He does have a high number of throwaways. That's due to a number of things in my opinion. First, that he is still learning to read defenses that he is facing; second, receivers not getting open/separation; third, trouble identifying "open" receivers / passing with anticipation. In short, he still has some of the same problems that many young QBs have, but he has definitely gotten better in all aspects of the position.
Do you remember the Emperor and his new clothes? You're wearing them. Everybody has watched Tebow play. I don't care how much you like him. He really sucks. I mean as bad as anybody that I've seen as a Jets starting QB since Brooks Bollinger. It's not just the mechanics. He doesn't understand pro defenses at all. He's like a lost kid out there. Yeah he pulls the ball down now and then for a decent gain but that's a mirage. When people decide to shut that down they'll shut it down. This isn't Florida in Division 1-A, it's the NFL. Pro defenders are bigger and faster and they know how to get guys down. If they didn't you'd have a running back with 2,500 yards every year. Michael Vick would have run for 1,000 more than once. A running QB adds some value to an offense, a RB playing QB does not. It just doesn't work. Tim Tebow caught a wave last year and rode it. That wave is probably never coming ashore again and he can't do anything but ride a wave like that.
Hmm, doesn't work huh ? First of all, Vick's problem is that he is fragile. Guys like Tebow, Cam and some others don't have that same problem, they can take the hits. Second, since you said it doesn't work, how do you explain Tebow's 600+ yards in only 11 starts >? Or Cam's 700+ in his starts ? Your problem is that you have this monolithic view of what a QB must be or must do. You know, 6'5", stand in the pocket, drop balls in on a dime anywhere on the field, yada, yada, yada. Guess what ? No one comes out of the womb like that and very few have anything close to that ability right out of college. Hell, very few have it after only 3 years in the league. Think about it a bit more. Take Andrew Luck for example. What has been said about him ? That he's the best QB prospect coming out of college since John Elway. Elway was drafted in 81. How many frakking NFL QBs have come out of college in that time span ? That's 31 freaking years. During those 31 years, most the rest of the guys taken didn't have that kind of ability. Rather, they came out, got taken by teams and THEY DEVELOPED OVER TIME. It took Aaron Rodgers three years to become ready to be a starter, and he's the best QB in the league.
Can you give me some stock picks while you're at it? I need to expand my portfolio. You can't predict what will happen. Tebow's success last year was far too frequent to be luck, IMO. Give the kid credit for what he accomplished and stop trying to diminish what he did. There is no logical reason for you to say he can't do it again, as there is no logical reason for us to say it will happen again. But saying it was a "wave" or "luck" is not a fair assessment.
Yep, that 4/14, and a pick (should have been 2 picks) against a 3rd string Carolina defense, realllllly shows that his accuracy and consistency are improving. Fun fact: Carolina's 1st string defense was 28th in the league last year. Its hard to fathom how abysmal their 3rd string defense could possibly be if their starters were almost dead last last year. :lol:
Don't recall saying that he was perfect, just that he had improved. Also, interceptions are often a function of decision making, not accuracy or consistency.
Sorry, but you're wrong again. On the play that he threw his pick, his receiver was open, and instead of lobbing the ball somewhere near where his receiver could make a play on it, he gunned it in to the bread basket of a defender. To quote Colinsworth - 'He had a man open. This was just a bad throw.' Incoming excuse that he was rolling to his right, and throwing across his body. Sad.
