Is our rush defense the problem?

12/26/2010 - Jets can't stop Bears ground game in a 38-34 loss. Matt Forte goes for 113 yards and Jay Cutler has one of the rare good games passing against the Jet's defense.

1/23/2011 - Jets can't stop the Steelers ground game on a couple of important drives early and the Steelers take a big lead into halftime in the AFC Championship game despite Roethlisberger having an off-day.

9/25/2011 - Raiders rush for 234 yards against the Jets.

10/9/2011 - Patriots rush for 152 yards and beat the Jets in a winnable game if the Jets can get off the field a couple of times when drives are extended by running the football.

11/17/2011 - Tebow rampant at the end for the win.

12/18/2011 - Eagles rush for 160 on the Jets and slaughter them.

12/25/2011 - Giants rush for 125 when Eli is having an off-day.

Is there a big problem with the Jets rush defense? Not sure on that one but if the Jets need to depend on the rush defense they're likely to lose as things stand.

 

I think the biggest thing with our run defense is the fact that Rex tends to use many sub packages that put 5,6 DB's, 2 Linemen and smaller LB's out.

Example when we played the Patrishits Brady kept calling audibles and doing draws to BGE and killed us that way.

Our run defense is fine except when it needs to be

 

so yards per carry mean nothing to the op?

 

I was going to mention this. I think switching to more 4-3 packages, along with having a few more 3-Down players (e.g. Wilkerson, Coples) could eliminate some of the times when the Defense would be caught in a package that was too Pass Defense oriented.

 

This is true. Our rushing D dropped off from 2010 to 2011. That was one of the biggest things we prided ourselves in 2009 + 2010. Running the ball and stopping the run. The key fundamentals to our game philosophy. Rex has said that many times. He didn't just draft Coples & Davis for pass rushing, just like he didn't sign Landry for coverage. He wants our line to be more physically dominant and to stop the run. If we can do decently stopping the run, it makes teams pass more often, which plays right into our strengths with the loaded backfield.

 

This.

Our run defense took a step back last year. It was still alright, but in 2009-10, it was one of the best in the league both years. Last year, it was only above average.

Part of the reason Rex wants to get one step faster on defense, so we can fly out to the edge and make plays. Coples will help. Davis will help. Wilkerson with a full training camp should improve as well.

When you build in the trenches, you get benefits across the board, and that's what the Jets are doing defensively.

 

Last year, Jets run D dropped off a lot.

That said, the year before, you have to consider how the runs were given up. In particular, Pittsburgh has been known to run a lot out of trips bunch formation (That's 10 formation for you, or in laymen's term, 1 RB, 4 WR and 0 TE formation, with 3 WRs bunched up on one side, with other one - usually Wallace - on the other end, and Mendenhall at tailback) This was particularly effective because Pittsburgh usually played percentage games - with 4 WRs in the huddle, defense will probably send in either nickel or dime package. That was what they keyed on. If the defense stayed in the base package, then Roethlisberger could audible out of bunch and spread WRs wide. (A match up you don't want to face as a defense.) Of course this meant the OL had to block their minds out.

As it was, Jets DL was not really a good DL - by that, what I mean is that, nobody commanded double team on a regular basis. Wilkerson would come in a year later (and was still raw) and DeVito/Pouha line do not scare you enough to devote double team on either, much less both. (I harped on the incompetence of this DL for some time - but then would get hammered for that.)

Now, with 4 men front, it remains to be seen whether they can enforce their will on the opposing OL on a regular basis. If that happens, then the defense will be stout. If not, it can't be too soon to chalk up the season as a lost one.

 

I think setting the edge was a problem and as stated before, losing Thomas was definitely a problem. While Oak beat us up, we lost that game cause we handed the Raiders 7 points with Cro's fumble.

 

You guys are a bit off on your cause-and-effect.

Teams ran against us more... because they couldn't throw... not because they had great success rushing.

We were the #1 team in the NFL at limiting #1 WRs, and get this, the #2 team in the league at limiting #2 WRs. Not so hot against slot WRs, and as everyone knows, TEs pushed our poop in. Teams had to go somewhere, and that included handing the ball off more.

Another reason we gave up more yards in total, is because we trailed much more often than we did in 2010. Teams with leads run the ball.

On a per-rush basis, we were pretty damn good. Our success rate allowed on 3rd and 2/4th and 2, X and goal from the 1 or 2.. was 45%.. 3rd best.

Football Outsiders thought we had the 4th best rush defense, and that our D-line was 2nd most effective in run-stopping.

 

Biggest problem with the Jets last season compared to 09 & 10 is that weren't as physical on either side of the ball.I think some of that was lack of explosive speed...and also from a shortened offseason. Last year's run D filled their gaps & often won their individual battles..but they were slow coming off blocks & lacked pop. You'd like to think the Jets addressed this issue in the offseason, but when it comes to being physical the proof is always in the pudding.

 

The run D last year got beat to the corner too often. This was true when both Pace and Thomas were available and it was a real flaw after Thomas went down.

The linebackers in the main set were a step slow as a group. That caused people like Darren McFadden and LeSean McCoy to become game breakers since their speed to the outside and elusiveness opened up the entire front.

 

I was reading the earlier posts on this thread and you beat me to it. Good post. Yes, there were some games last year when the run D was worse than others, and the Raiders game in particular was a travesty. But the run D was very flat the year before in the Champ Game against Pitt, too.

The ypc number is a better overall indicator of the run D's effectiveness than total yardage per game, since as you point out teams tended to run more against the Jets because the pass D is so great, and then the Jets' O's lack of scoring meant the team was more often behind, allowing the opponent to run the ball more, too.

You can't just look at a single stat like average total rushing yardage per game and build an indictment off of that.

 

Exactly. Speedy backs are the ones that kill us. People who are run it up the gut types are the ones we can stop easily enough.

 

LeSean McCoy and D McFadden beat a lot of defenders off the edge, not just Jets.

I think the reps Wilk, Dixon and Ellis got last year will serve us well I expect a stout run D as usual this year.

 

Speed kiulled us. The good news is it apears the coaching staff realizes this and wants to get faster and faster.

 

Yea I like the addition of Maybin, Coples, and Davis. All very fast for their position. We desperately needed some speed in the front. Now a fast safety would be nice too.

 

Our problem is our bean counter gm who has undervalued the use of the draft to develop quality depth. The current state of the olb position on this team is a joke for a 3/4 team. Pace should be arrested for his theft of un earned pay. Maybin can only speed rush and then what after him?

 

^Newsflash! Things have changed in the off season.

I can see your points, and they are good ones, but you can't measure our entire success of our defense based on the goal line alone. If we never allow them to get to the goal line in the first place, we never need to stop them there. Again offensive turnovers affect that stat. We were pretty good at limiting teams to FGs the last few years, but the problem is that we often got burned by the big plays on 3rd down to move teams into the red zone. Whether it was Eric Smith getting exploited in coverage or Bart Scott missing a tackle, or OLBs not setting the edge. All 3 of those issues have been addressed this year. Attempts matter, but def don't tell the whole story. If teams notice that rushing works and we can't stop it on 3rd downs they will remember and exploit us with that every time, unless we're playing against Schotty. A few guys ran all over us last season. To say our rushing D didn't take a step back is silly.

McFadden put up 171 yards on the ground against us, with 9.0 yards per carry, and this was before the Bryan Thomas injury. That is NOT just because of attempts. A large part of that was happening early in the game before the score even got run up. I remember their very first drive, they made our defense look silly. Even law firm put like 140 (5.0ypc)on us in that first Pats game. Hell even Helu had 100 (4.3ypc). In 2010 only 1 rusher, Forte, broke 100 yards against us. It's not solely about yards per game, but that's a huge part of it. McFadden with 9.0 ypa speaks volumes about our rushing defense, although it was up and down all year. We did have some very good games defending the run, but we only allowed a single 100 yard rusher in 2010 and we allowed at least 4 in 2011, some getting as high as 170 or 140, shows exactly why we struggled at times on D. If we can be more consistent, we'll be much better this year. The pieces are in place to improve substantially in this category.

 

we're moving towards many more 4-3 looks but I agree 100% on Pace. If we paid him half of what we;ve paid him so far, it would be a terrible signing