Will Tom Coughlin go to the HOF?

Probably

But Parcells hasn't gotten inducted yet and there are a couple of other past and current HCs that deserve it more IMO

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Of course he will. Parcells should have been already but probably made some enemies along the way.

 

Parcells would be in if he didn't unretire 5 times so it's not a good comparison, obviously he's not half the coach BP was but 2 SBs gives him a great chance although Tom Flores isn't in w/ 2 SB wins. I see a lot of similarities btw Coughlin/Eli & Flores/Plunkett. Where Tom has the edge is he had success w/ a 2nd team, I think he'll make it which is amazing to me. pre '07 run he had no shot, he was turning into a mediocre coach and now 2 SB runs later he's probably a HOFer. Things change quickly.

 

I think that's why Parcells didn't go in on the most recent vote. He pissed a lot of people over the course of his career and some voters want to hold him to that. Plus, if you look at his work after the Giants, his list of accomplishments doesn't seem so great. I think his career after his stint with the Giants hurt his chances. Coughlin is going to retire with the Giants and that should be a good note for him to go out on.

 

His accomplishemtns post-Giants were aamzing, he just didn't hang around long enough to finish the job. The Pats and jets were at the very bottom of the lague when he took over and he turned both into SB caliber teams w/in 3-4 years. he didn't do as good of a job in Dallas but he did bring them out of the mediocrity they were stuck in before he got here.

BP was a much better coach than Coughlin, that's not a knock on Tom. BP is an all time great. Mediocre GM type, all time great coach.

 

He made a Patriots team over-achieve their way to a Super Bowl that they lost. He got the Jets to an AFC Championship game that they lost. He didn't win a playoff game with the Cowboys and was responsible for them having to deal with an over-the-hill Drew Bledsoe at QB (though he was also responsible for keeping Romo around during this time). His coaching accomplishments sans Belichick are not HOF worthy. When you couple that with the wake of abandoned franchises and ruffled feathers he left, his accomplishments are kind of meh.

His work with the Giants was great, but lets not forget he had Belichick coaching for him, arguably the greatest defensive player of all time being coached by BB, and a great GM bringing him talent.

I'm not saying Parcells isn't a Hall of Fame coach, but let's "put away the anointing oil."

As for Coughlin, I think his leading two of the most incredible and unlikely Super Bowl runs ever should place him ahead of Parcells. If you think I'm being biased, you can read about Coughlin's accomplishments here...

http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Articles/11_5319_New_York_Giants:_Coughlin's_statistical_Wyld_Stallyns.html

Or, if you want, you can read about Coughlin & Parcells in a direct comparison here....

http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Articles/11_5320_Super_Bowl_Hangover_Pt._1:_Tom_Coughlin_vs._Bill_Parcells.html

I don't see how you can say Parcells is a better coach, much less a significantly better coach.

 

I said he didn't finish the job but the jobs he did were still amazing. he took over 3 laughingstock franchises(NYG, NE, NYJ) and one on their way towards laughingstock status(Dal) and made them all contenders.

The Giants went from 1964-192 w/ ONE playoff app. W/ BP from 1983-1990?

2 SB wins, one dominant team and another great team(not 10-6, 9-7) in an era of dynasties w/ GREAT teams littered throughout the NFC.


Took over NE in 1993, I'm not sure a franchsie could be any lower. Not only was the record atrocious(in 5 seasons prior to BP arrival NE won a total of 19 games) but they had the incident w/ Lisa Olsen and the franchise was on the verge of moving. W/in 4 years he had them in the SB- w/ DREW BLEDSOE as the QB.

Took over a Jet team w/ 1 playoff app 1987-1996, a team that was coming off a 1-15 season and won 4 games the previous 2 seasons. Had team nearly in SB in year TWO.

Took over dallas team w/ 3 staright 5-11's, led team to 10 wins in first season w/ Quincy Carter as his QB.

The man was a mediocre GM type but one of the best coaches of all time and better than Coughlin by a mile.

Last I checked Coughlin didn't take Jax to a SB, did he? so BP taking a 2nd franchise immediately elevates him over Coughlin. Coughlin was 14-2 and hosted a title game in 1999 and got blown out at home in the title game.

BP led the '86 Giants to a 14-2 record and a 39-20 SB win
BP led the '9o Giants to 13-3 inclduing beating a team on the ROAD in the title game that was BETTER than the '07 Pats- SF was going for a 3 peat.

Coughlin has done a great job, his teams have gotten hot at the right time but the '07 Giants were 10-6 , the '11 Giants were 9-7. Neither team was great.

In the other 6 seasons Coughlin has been w/ the Giants he hasn't won a single playoff game.

I don't want to hear about BB either, he hasn't won a SB w/o BP's old staff either. BP surrounded himself w/ a great staff and gets credit for that. BP never had a Tom Brady either.

I tip my hat to Coughlin, again he's gotten his teams hot at the right time but he's not half the coach BP was. Don't confuse his awful job making personnel decisions w/ the great coach that he was.

 

Yeah he will. Insult and injury will build. But in all fairness, he has done a great job. He needs a better ski mask for really cold games, but there is no tother criticism.

 

Read the article I posted about Coughlin vs Parcells. They joke at the end of the article that the Giants best HC wasn't "the Big Tuna" but rather should be "the Frozen Tomato."

 

I read part of it, it's nice for Tom but I saw both of their entire Giant careers and I don't believe it's close.

Both have coached 8 years w/ the Giants but BP took over a much worse franchise(although he had the best player). The Giants were a few years removed froma SB app and only a year removed from a playoff app when Coughlin took over. The Giants were a year removed from their first playoff app in 18 years then fell back in '82. That isn't reflected in the overall records.

3 of BP's losses were w/ replacement players too so the records aren't wuite as close as they appear.

BP: 2 SB wins, didn't need any crazy plays to keep drives alive at the end to win, won 3 div titles(remember his early years Dallas was still a top team and he had Gibbs teams to deal w/- what top teams has Coughlin had to deal w/?), won playoff games in 4 different postseasons

TC: 2 SB wins, Giants were 10-6 & 9-7 in SB winning seasons, shut out at home in a postseason game, won postseason games in 2 of 8 seasons

I admire what Coughlin has done, he's not BP.

 

I can guess we can agree to disagree. But considering Coughlin has beaten 3 of the top 10 highest scoring offenses in NFL history, has gone on several impressive road-win streaks, and has twice bested the defensive coordinator that helped get Parcells his only two SB wins, I would put Coughlin above him.

And let's not discount what Coughlin did in Jacksonville with an expansion team. He had them in the AFCCG his 2nd year and beat John Elway in the playoffs as well.

I don't think style points matter, but what crazy plays kept the Giants alive at the end of this last Super Bowl? The only major play was the pass to Manningham and that was a great catch on a pass that literally could not have been thrown any better. Let's not forget that Parcells needed Norwood to miss a field goal to win his second Super Bowl; it's not like Coughlin lucked into his victory while Parcells fought against all odds. If anything Coughlin is the guy defying the odds and achieving victory when basically every stat measured theretofore said he should have failed.

 

The pats didn't have great D's either SB and they didn't exactly light them up. They scored enough to win, they wont hose games by slowing down great offenses.

The Panthers were in the title game in year 2 as well, the expansion rules for those teams favored them being good quickly so he gets credit but not too much. Dom Capers who was an average to beloe average coach had his team in the title game in year 2 of their existence.

What crazy plays? 2 of the most amazing catches of all time, one sticking to a helmet and a 2nd that I'm still not sure he made.

Norwood attempted a 47 yarder on grass, it's far from a chip shot.

I tip my cap to Tom, He's done a great job in the SB runs but let's also not forget he was on the verge of bein fired in 2007 and 2011 before those runs happened. I don't think Coughlin is in BP's league but I do think he has a great shot to make the Hall.

 

I'm not going to argue the catch with you, man. I think you just see what you want to see on that. I really don't understand how you can argue that Manningham didn't make that catch. It happened right in front of Belichick and he stated he knew it was a catch but challenged to gain a longer timeout and because he knew the 2-minute warning was coming up.

But I really disagree with Coughlin not being in Parcells' league. Coughlin's teams have risen to the occasion while Parcells' teams have not. Coughlin has beaten the 2 best offenses in NFL history. He beat the only team to ever go 18-0 (a team that is arguably the best statistical team ever). He beat a 13-3 Cowboys team that had just set several franchise records and had beaten his team twice earlier that season.

Parcells needed a missed chipshot field goal from Denver to motivate his team to rally (he said as much in the America's Game series on the NFL Network) and he also benefitted from an over the hill RB having enough gas left to become his SB MVP. Hell, if you want to talk about luck, how about Jeff freaking Hostetler somehow regaining control of that fumble Bruce Smith forced (safety instead of a TD there was HUGE).

Parcells ended his career on a VERY underachieving note in Dallas. He had Romo, Witten, Owens, Marion Barber in his prime, a Terry Glenn that could still produce, and a fierce young DeMarcus Ware. How many playoff wins did he get out of that?

Read the 2nd article I posted, it really does a great job comparing the two coaches.

 

The rule is if the ball moves at all it's not a catch, the ball moved. I think it's a dumb a rule but it's the rule. Either way, they called it a catch and they won but it was a spectacular catch. It wasn't an ordinary catch.

Parcells teams haven't risen to the occasion? he won 2 SBs ion an era of truly great teams.

The rules are more skewed toward offense so those weren't the 2 best offenses in the history of the league.

The '07 Pats were not nbearly as good the 2nd half of the year and in postseason as they were the first half.

the '07 Cowboys had Tony Romo at QB, then you got Favre. Those are the gifts that keep on giving.

The 1990 Niners were far better than the '07 pats who were by far the best team the Giants beat in their 2 SB runs.

The Giants were 14-2 and 13-3 under BP compared to 10-6 and 9-7 and you are talking about luck?

You discuss a missed chip shot FG against Den, you think if karlis makes those Fgs in the first half the Giants weren't running away w/ it in the 2nd half? They crushed Den when it mattered most, they didn't need last minute miracle catches.

He won a SB w/ a BACKUP QB who had 2 career starts until he bacem the starter w/ 2 games to go in the 1990 reg season. yeah it was lucky that Hos didn't fumble that ball, he did agreat job but to even win in SF then beat a really good Bills team w/ a backup QB was amazing.


He disappointed in dallas but has anyone won w/ Tony Romo? those guys were all really young when he left and have been in their primes for years w/ just 1 playoff win.

 

I hate the Giants but I appreciate Coughlin. He has been put threw so much bullshit from his own fanbase. He got them a Super Bowl and 3 years later they all want him fired. Mara stuck with him and it resulted in another Super Bowl.

The Giants fans are a disgrace and I wont be suprised if they beg to get him fired again in 3 years so they can get "BILL COWHERD!!!". If I was Tom, I would give a big middle finger to the Giants fans when he retires because they have treated him like complete shit.

 

I'm going to defend the Giant fans here(as hard as that is). All fanbases are similar, they all want results. Prior to the '07 run he had been there 4 years w/ no playoff wins, where is that acceptable? post '07 run they went 4 years w/o another playoff win. Of course he was on the hot seat but when it was hottest he and the team came through. Any fanbase would have reacted the same.

 

I'll take Parcells over Coughlin but both should be in the HOF.

 

the Keebler elf hall of fame?

yes, along with Mike Shanahan

 

Without a doubt.