where are you guys getting this stuff about validating Sparano? please post my quote. I'd love to know how you are interpreting this.
So let me try to sum this up. Someone criticizes Tony Sparano, then you respond with Reggie Bush had the best season of his career, and then it is proven to you in itemized fashion that his performance in Miami was not down to anything but him being available and used more, and you even chime in and say he only did well down the stretch in meaningless games (the best of which took place after Sparano was fired, anyway)... just what the fuck are you even talking about? Do you even have an overall point that can be expressed coherently? Reggie Bush's 2011 had nothing to do with Tony Sparano. It didn't even have very much to do with the offensive coordinator and staff, besides their intent to use him more. Reggie Bush is the player he is and has been for the last several years, except in 2011 he stayed healthy. That is ALL. Using his season as a bulwark against criticism of the Dolphins OL generally is nothing but bullshit. The Dolphins had two good years running the football, '08 and '09. This was due to the WILDCAT. When the Wildcat was shut down in 2010, the Dolphins were second from the bottom in YPC, which made sense, since they weren't running the ball well in '08 and '09 except for the Wildcat. So in 2011, the Dolphins demote or release their pass protecting offensive linemen in favor of a power scheme. They move Vernon Carey inside. They sign Marc Colombo and start him at RT. So then what happens? YPC increases somewhat overall (though Reggie Bush is the same guy he's been in NO), but at the cost of a complete lack of pass protection. What about this makes you optimistic about Sparano as OC? He had ONE GIMMICK -- the Wildcat -- and it wasn't even his idea. When it failed, the running game went completely to shit. Then when he tried to help the running game, he got his quarterback pounded. So what's his plan here in NY? A resurrection of the Wildcat, only this time with Tim Tebow. Sadly, it's been figured out. All you have to do is blitz the playside corner into that jet sweep and roll over the safety to cover the WR. That plugs up the extra gap and unless you've got a more accurate quarterback than Ronnie Brown (which Tim Tebow is not), then it's game over. Plus, he's once again showing he's incapable of seeing or acknowledging that a player like WFH is a huge liability, just as he talked about "watching the film" on Marc Colombo before he signed off on that abomination of a RT.
nothing was proven about Bush other than the more carries he had in NO the less effective he was. In Miami he was not good early when they had a chance to do soemthing and "turned it on" after the season was over. Wildat or no wildcat if you don't have quality OL play you aren't going to have success, that was the point. You guys act like the dolphins Ols were the worst in football, they ran it effectively but had trouble protecting the passer more b/c of poor QB play and poor decision making. Considering Rex is one of the bst defensive minds in the game and he saw firsthand how effective Tebow could be in short spurts I think I'll trust his opinion on using the WC. I HATE the WC but they were running this year w/ or w/o Tebow or Sparano but now we have the best guy in the league to run it so it's bettre than the alternative.
Are you fucking high? The numbers DIRECTLY contradicted this. So you're saying he played better the more touches he got and the more the season went on, which is exactly the opposite of what you were saying earlier in the thread. Got it. The Wildcat is a schematic way to give the offense a numbers advantage because it eliminates someone who would be watching the play (the quarterback) by giving them the football. This is entirely relevant because the Dolphins offense was not very good running the ball unless they were in the Wildcat. It was a gimmick that made the Dolphins OL look better at they were. Hence the 2010 season. So the Dolphins OL was made to *look* bad by poor QB play? That's an interesting line of bullshit, considering multiple statistics services as well as Jon Gruden have said that the Dolphins were the worst pass blocking OL in football last year. People trusted Rex's opinion on keeping Shotty around, too. Look how that turned out. The guy is a great defensive mind but he simply does not know much about offense. It's not his expertise. All he wants the offense to do is not play so bad even his defense can't win the game. The best guy in the league to run the Wildcat is not Tim Tebow by any means. That would be Cam Newton, followed by Michael Vick, followed by Jake Locker. What 2010 proved for the Dolphins is that defenses can stop the Wildcat unless you have a legitimate threat throwing the football out of it. Hence the Pat White pick/abortion. Do you actually think Tim Tebow is an effective throwing threat?
The #s show the more touches he gets in a season the less productive he is except for last year. He played better in a meaningless spot in Miami, whent he team needed him to win games early in the year and possible get in and stay in the race he was a no show, once they were out of it he was "great" If jon Gruden said it then it must be true. Did those statistical services know the scheme and what the responsibilities were of each player on offense? We made 2 title games w/ Schotty and that's offense, we're talking defense here so he knows what it is like top have to take time preparing and executing vs. that offense. Cam Newton and Michael Vick are real QBs, you can't risk those guys running as much but I agree they would be better running it but it isn't realistic. as a WC QB Tebow is an effective option to throw it w/o a doubt. I don't want him throwing much just to have the threat of the pass. I really hate discussing the WC as I hate watching it.
While this is true, meaningful games vs. meaningless games is not the only variable at hand. There was a point in the season in which Daboll realized just how to better use Bush. I don't think that the pressure to perform impacts running backs to the degree that you are suggesting.
I swear, if the Jets FO released Revis, traded Mangold for a used cup, and threw in D'Brick in for good measure, NYJUNC would applaud and explain to everyone how those were all good moves destined to make the Jets better!
How in the heck was it proven RB was the same back in NO as in Miami? Did you actually watch him play in NO as a true running back he was awful. He ran much better in Miami more north and south less east and west. He even says it himself. Sparano was not the OC in Miami he was the head coach. Granted Sparano does not have any OC experience but he has been a successful coach in the NFL for a long time lets give the guy a chance before we decide he sucks. IMHO Schotty's biggest weakness as an OC was not the plays or the philosophy of the offense but that he was just a crappy play caller. Sparano in his limited experience as a play caller has done well.
I love when folks post nonsense like this, where am I raving about what the Jets did? Especially coming from the guy raving about the Bills. He seems like he actually understands the game and isn't a gutless coward so I wouldn't expect him to act like you. how come he wasn't doing that the first 6 games when he had a chance to impact Miami's season?
When you break down the numbers, though, there's nothing about "wearing down" to look at as causation. The farther into the season, the better the YPC. The more touches in a game, the better the YPC. You want correlation that actually means something, look to the fact that Reggie Bush's YPC has increased nearly every year he's been in the league. The years over 100 carries, which you love to cite, are his first three years in the league, and he had 3.6, 3.7 and 3.8 YPC, respectively. His numbers went to 5.6 and 4.2 after that, basically in line with the 5.0 he had last year. Yes, the 4.2 year had only 36 carries, but it still fits the statistical trend. The 5.6 year came in only 70 carries but 70 carries is closer to 106 carries (2008) than 106 carries is to 150+ carries (2007 and 2006). The story of Reggie Bush is not the story of a player who doesn't produce when he gets more than 100 carries unless he's in Miami (since he does better the more carries he gets in a game and the later he gets into a season, for your theory to be right he would have to know AHEAD OF TIME how many carries he was going to get in a season so he knew to start sucking right away). It's the story of a steadily improving player hampered by injury who finally had his first healthy season since his first and produced in a way he had been working up to to for years. And it's certainly not the story of Tony Sparano, Wonder Coach. Totally beside the point. Your attempt to break down games that mean something and games that don't mean something because they're blowouts or meaningless is pathetic. Yes. Offensive linemen are supposed to block. That is their assignment. If the quarterback was holding the ball for 5 seconds or missing completely open receivers, that would be noted. Which, generally, the Jets shut down. The Dolphins only have had one good performance against Rex's D in the last three years. You better get used to it, because Sparano loves the Wildcat.
On the first point. No one has decided he sucks. It's just that i don't get all the love he gets, all the apparent certainty people feel that he is going to be a vast improvement. And what do you mean by successful? That he's been around for awhle? How about that the last thing that happened to him before coming to hte Jets was that he got fired? You call that being successful? You think the Miami organization, their fans, thought he was successful? Oh yea, we did not get him as the HC, the job he got fired from. So? He's never been an OC, either. No proven success level there, either. Again, I am not predicting he will fail. I hope he succeeds. But all this apparent certainty he is destined to succeed is pure homerism. On the second point, a simple observation - the job description of an OC involves more than playcalling. On that score I still don't understand how Sparano was originally supposed to run the rushing attack, with Todd Haley working on passing, and Sparano in effect got that part of the O by default when Haley did not come. That about covers it, but let's just stop creaming in our pants over Sparano when he hasn't done shit yet for the Jets.
whatever the reasoning is the more carries he had in NO the less productive he was, you want to tell me he didn't wear down? ok but he was less productive. Some of his good YPC games came from games where he had one nice run and only a few carries which skews that #. His YPC was virtually the same his first 3 years: 3.6, 3.7, 3.8 That's not much improvement. he improved his next 2 years w/ low carries and last year he had his best season when the games were meaningless. Let's see him duplicate his 2011 season and let's see him do it from game 1 not game 7. Miami drafted another RB, they know what is going on, it's highly unlikely he'll get as many carries as he had a year ago. I didn't credit Tony Sparano, you may want to go back and read my quote. All I did was defend his OLs as someone else said how bad they were. you aren't having as much success running the ball if you have a bad OL. You can use the WC excuse but they only used the WC for a limited # of plays per game. Sorry I don't get impressed in blowout games, guys impress by making big plays in big spots and performing when their teams need them most. Getting 100 yds in a blowout means very little, padding stats in meaningless games means very little. When does jon Gruden criticize anyone? especially QBs? The WC years vs. rex were '09 and '10, Miami had great games against us in half of those games. Both games in Miami they ran it well against us, I don't recall how much they used the WC in the '10 game b/c they were not using it much by that point. Does Sparano love the WC? I don't know, it worked for him in '08 & '09 but we have some nice offensive weapons. I don't think we'll see it much, a few times per game and I think they'll use Tebow in other packages as well to get him his plays- I hope.
Yes, he was. But ignoring the causes of that leads to ignorant conclusions. That's just the way speed backs are. All of 'em. What's your point? You act as if I give a shit about Reggie Bush or want to hold him up as a good player. My goal here is to separate what Reggie Bush did from giving credit to Tony Sparano, new Jets offensive coordinator. When someone criticizes Sparano and the Dolphins OL and you cite Reggie Bush saying, "if he/they was so bad then how did Reggie Bush have the best season of his career" then that is indeed crediting Tony Sparano with that best season. If you don't credit Sparano with Bush's season then how is citing that season defending Sparano? It doesn't make sense. And the Dolphins used the Wildcat a lot more than you think they did. According to one source I found, a one point during the '09 season, they used it 48 times in a five game span, and got 40 percent more YPC per play out of it than from their base offense. Again, what is your point? I am not saying Reggie Bush is good. But this system of yours where statistics only count in the instances you say that count is preposterous bullshit. He criticized the Dolphins' pass protection. Given that he's so positive most of the time, that is really saying something. And he criticizes QBs more than you think. Watch his QB Camp episode with Andrew Luck. Gruden rants at Luck for like 10 straight minutes for throwing a bad INT vs. USC. The Dolphins ran the ball 23 times for 84 yards in 2010, a mind blowing 3.7 YPC. I don't recall them running much if any Wildcat by the point. It fell apart in mid/late 2009. Keep on hoping. Like I said, the Dolphins were using it 10 times a game at one point.
I agree they are just optimistic Jets fans. There is no real good evidence Sparano will be an offense of genius but there is good evidence that he is a good coach and commands respect in the locker room. That maybe needed more than an offenses genius. He had very successful seasons in Miami took them from one win to eleven. Ditka was fired from the Bears does that mean he was not successful? Not homerism optimism a big difference. We will believe he will succeed until he does not. Homerism is supporting Schotty after he already has failed. You are correct Sparano was supposed to be more of an assistant head coach role (get the locker room back under control). Rex thinks he can handle the OC duties we will see. He is not the only offense of coach they have on staff and his staff will put in the offense. Calling the plays and putting in an offensive game plan is a big part of being an OC. No, but lets get excited for the Jets for taking steps to improve their offense. The new coach is Sparano lets support him until he proves he cant handle the job. Sparano brings a lot of interesting experience to the job lets hope it works out. It is easy to be negative and being a Jets fan I can be negative with the best of them but I am at least optimistic until proven other wise.
So Soprano with a Healthy Pennington gets to the playoffs once and gets destroyed in one playoff game and run out a couple of years later. Doesn't seem like a great resume to me. Shotty did just as well as Soprano did with Pennington with alot less talent around him .
Why are we arguing then? My point wasn't to heap praise on Soarano for reggie I just pointed out a fact that they had good running games in 3 of his 4 years there and the OLs were not quite as bad as many people think. That doesn't mean I think they were the '82 'skins or some other great unit but their OLs were not bad. I didn't just bring up Bush, I brought up successful run games in 3 of 4 seasons including w/ Reggie. I think they used the WC a lot less than people think, I'd love to see the #s in how much they actually used it. Ricky/Ronnie averaged 4.6 YPC, I'm not counting henne for 1 yd, Marshall for 2 for 3 yds, Polite 1 for 4 yds and Cobbs 1 for minus 6 which drags down the YPC. I will be shocked if we use it 10 times a game and I'd love to see some evidence of Miami using it 10 times per game.
He had a successful season taking over a real bad team and had some success. you cant compare him to Schotty because Schotty is an OC not a head coach. I would not want Sparano as the Jets head coach but with they way the locker room imploded last season I think Sparano is a good choice from that stand point. I just hope he is a good Offense Coordinator we will find out soon enough. We know he is not an offensive Guru but the way the Jets want to play he does not have to be. He just needs to put up 21 points a game win the field position battle and our defense should carry us. If our defense sucks then we are in really big trouble.
You have a very different definition of homer than I do, apparently. A homer is someone who puts an excessively positive spin on something, in this context usually a sports team they support, available evidence either to the contrary or not existent. Optimism I would define as based upon a favorable interpretation of evidence that actually exists. For example, so and so was great before his recent injury, and it sounds like he's getting better, so I hope he will return to form.
And here I thought you were talking about the connection of Sparano and success based on his presumed involvement with the O in Miami. Obviously and to the extent you distinguish his HC experience, that is to some extent pointing to is involvement with the D down there, which is not exactly of much relevance to what he will do with the Jet O. Sparano in fairness had some success with the O in Miami, but in hindsight installing the wildcat was NOT his idea, or based on his direct planning and design, was supplemented by the obvious fact that Chad had one injury free season left in him, and ended in crash and burn fashion with one of the more lopsided and embarassing playoff losses in recent history. Since then, the wildcat was largely figured out and more or less put on the shelf, Sparano's CS picked Henne as their starting Qb and could not develop him, and although Moore played well as last season went on, the overall results got Sparano fired. Like I said, none of this guarantees he will fail as the Jet OC. But try as I might I can't get too confident by the situation. Add in that he basically got the overall OC job by default when Haley turned the Jets' offer down, and I will need at least two helpings of taht Kool Aide you guys have been drinking to see things the way you do.
