Yesterday emotions got pretty high between Coples bashers and fans who would never dare criticize their own franchise on draft day. Let's take a rational approach to this... Premise(s): 1) Coples has all the talent in the world, no one can deny that. Also it's not like he never produced at the college level, sure his senior stats weren't great but if you take an average of the 2010-11 seasons he's done well. 2) I think it's wrong to say Rex is a great evaluator of DL/LB just because he's great at coaching them. Coaching and scouting are two completely different things. Can someone be great at both? Sure. But one doesn't imply the other. That said I agree that if anyone can make Coples great it's Rex/Pettine/Dunbar (great job in Minn). Also he'll have great examples in Pouha, Wilkerson, DeVito... great guys and blue collar players. Why I don't like the pick: 1) If there is one thing I'm afraid of in the draft is players that don't show exceptional love for the game. I'm not saying Coples is at Gholston's level but he's clearly been relying 90% on his god given talent at the college level. That doesn't bring continued success in the NFL, where the overall talent and physicality is much higher. Every great player in this league is great because of talent AND the amount of work he puts into his job and on the field. Can Coples become this sort of professional? Sure, nothing is impossible... but I wouldn't say it's probable and passion isn't really something you can teach. You either have the desire to be great or you don't. 2) Rex compared him to Shaun Ellis (I agree). But it's not like Shaun Ellis revolutionized our pass rush when he was here (11 sacks in 2 years)! Sure, he got more pressure than DeVito... but in a 34 (Especially in Rex's scheme, compared to a Wade Phillips) DEs are supposed to take on double teams, not get to the QB. It's great if they do, but that's not their #1 job. For 2 years in a row we spent our first rd pick on someone who's main occupation is to take on double teams!? Unless we're going to run more 43 looks (which we might) I don't think we got positional value #16. 3) A mix of the first two reasons. A player already has troubles motivating himself and you put him on the field to do a job that isn't considered flashy (take double teams)? Good luck making him give 100% effort every play! 4) One thing was if the Jets thought he could be a 34OLB... but I'd say we had way more needs than a 34DE, no matter how high the ceiling. We have NO ONE at G behind Slauson and an aging Moore that fits our scheme and we let the best guard in years to slip through? We have Hunter at RT and don't take Reiff at #16 who can also fill in at LT if needed (and play G)? Our LBs are old as shit and we let Hightower go to the Pats? We love versatile players on D and don't take Ingram who is a high character guy and loves the game? I'm all for BPA but at position of needs, and 34DE wasn't a dire need. So, please write your opinions without getting to hyped up and convince us non-believers! PS The "you shouldn't criticize your team on draft day or you're a debbie downer" is soooo stupid. If we can't criticize or praise the Jets move why the hell would we want to go on a message board!? The important thing is to give reasons for your opinions... I'm pretty sure everyone who says he won't making is saying he thinks it's likely he won't make it... not that there isn't a chance in hell he becomes a worthy 1st rd pick!
If we have 3 down linemen who require double teams it lessens the need for a dominant OLB. We can use merely good OLBs who can beat single blockers, like we have with Mayhem. When the linemen can push the pocket back it makes it easier for the outside guys. This is what the Patsies had for years that made guys like Vrabel and Bruschi look good.
QFT If 3 guys on the DLine need to be double teamed by opposing OLines/max protect packages, then we have 3 more people to either rush the passer or drop into coverage. While I am not super knowledgeable on the draft and new players, all the articles I have read show that Coples shouldn't have even been on the board at #16. I think we did ok.
I think premise 2 is just pure nonsense. I think being a great coach exactly implies that they're a good/great talent evaluator. It simply doesn't guarantee it. I'm sure there are about a million examples of top coaches on at least one side of the football that could have done just as well if they ran the scouting department themselves and phoned in all the picks, (assuming they had enough time in the day.) Rex knows the game. He knows his defense. He knows what he's looking for. He saw it. To assume this man in this situation acted incompetently....is incompetent. Coples may flop, just as any player might. But he sure as hell isn't going to flop because you know something right now that Rex doesn't know right now about him. P.S. Wilkerson draws doubles. Coples draws doubles. Hm.....idk.....that doesn't seem all that special. The offense gets what...12...13 guys to play with right?
I wanted DeCastro or Ingram at our spot. I like the idea of shooting some youth upfront these last two years Ellis, Mo, and now Q; but as you pointed out; in this 3-4 the DE main priority is to tie up blockers for others to make plays. We could still get a guy like Mike Adams/Cordy Glenn in the 2nd so I am not too concerned. The good news is that we did not trade away our 2nd or 3rd this year; I feel these two picks combined will be extreemly important...cant wait for tonight.
This guy is a physical specimen. He is fast, has a nice wingspan, strong, and he managed to navagate all of the turmoil that was UNC and play productive football as a starter. If there was a reason to question his motivation, it was raised by UNC moving him his senior year and changing his position, but he was still productive. Not only is Rex a great evaluator of talent, he worked this kid out himself and he said he could not tire the kid out. Moreover, he is going to put him back at the position which he was most productive. That should definetely motivate the kid. I am begining to like the pick more and more. If this works out our D-line will be Wilkerson, Ellis and Coples. That has the potential to be a dominant D-line
I think we will see a lot more 4-3 sets with this guy in fold and that is where you will see his real potential.
I am hoping for either cordy or Adams in the second as well. I am not in love with the Coples pick. I would have hoped for someone more consistant, because of that I thought Ingram was a better fit. I watched some tape on coples and he did disappear alot in games. That being said he was almost always double teamed and still had the rb assigned to him most of the time. So the other teams feared him. If he can draw doubles teams in the pros I will be very happy with him. For me Ellis will be the key to the D up-front if he can develop into a problem for the Centers to contain alone our d-line will start to create the type of pressure that helps the secondary create turnovers.
i dont know if we see more 4-3 looks. what i do know is he was considered the most polished pass rusher available.he can also set the edge on run downs.i think rex is going to be able to scheme all kinds of things with him and maybin that is going to finally get consistent pressure with 4 guys
While I personally wanted DeCastro or possibly trade down for Jones, I just cannot be angry at Rex and this pick. If Coples is 75% of his potential we have the makings of a very very good DLine with which the need for Elite LBs diminishes and we can use our money and resources on other areas of need. We still have 6 rounds to see how things pan out, but right now if I'm going to trust anyone in the league with a defensive player hand picked for their system, I have to trust Rex!
Excellent post Mambo9, I could not agree with your thinking more. I have a hard time with players who are dubbed "lazy" or don't have the passion for the game. You take that and sprinkle in a boat load of $ and I think you've got a recipe for disaster. Jurys still out but I can't say i woke up happy today.
From what I read, Coples isn't Shaun Ellis. People are saying the way he plays could be like Mario Williams and Julius Peppers. Remeber also with our d-line last year, we had to do a lot of subbing in out because we didn't have 3 down linemen. Devito was great against the run, but against the pass couldn't put pressure. If we can get a D-line that can play 3 downs, it turns down the effectiveness of teams hurrying up or no huddling while we try to sub in and out packages
I think the Jets saw what the Gmen have done against NE, and the rest of the NFL, and are tring to put their spin on it. Look at the 4 down linemen combos we can throw out there in obvious passing situations. This will allow us to play man and create pressure up fron WITHOUT blitzing! 1)Couples and Maybin on the edge with Mo Wilk and Dixon/Ellis inside 2)Maybin and Pace on the edge with wilk and couples inside 3)Maybin and pace on the edge with Couples and BT inside
I don't agree. I think being a great coach can lead you in being over-confident in your capabilities of getting 100% out of everyone and thus drafting someone with a lot of talent but a good amount of ??? as to wether that talent can transalte onto the field. Everyone covering the draft said that... from guru's to ex-GMs to scouts and coaches. I remember reading a player personnel exec calling him "crazy". Of course I don't have a first hand opinion having never met him but when EVERYONE agrees it worries me. Also because Tanny has proven time and time again to draft players who are not known for their high motor. Rex said he reminds him of Shaun Ellis and he'll be played where Ellis played... I guess our HC's opinion is the most important one.
I like the pick. He will kill brady, fitzy and whoever starts for the phins. Go Jets! Ground 'n Pound!!
The absolute #1 need this team had going into this off-season on defense was pass rush. A 3-4 defensive end doesn't generate a pass rush, unless your name is Haloti Ngata or Justin Smith and you have Suggs/Aldon Smith playing right beside you. But who knows if we take a guy like Vinny Curry in the second round to fill that hole.
