Can you explain how it was not the same team Orton was the quarterback of? Do you mean they traded Brandon Lloyd the #1 receiver when they also started Tebow? Then you are right, it was not the same team. You have zero cred not knowing ANYTHING about the Broncos .
The Broncos weren't that bad pre-Tebow in 2011. Lost to a good Raiders team by 3, lost @ Tennessee by 3, and beat Cincinatti. Their only other loss was a no-brainer against the Packers. The game against the Chargers, as I'm sure you know, Orton played the first and Tebow the second half. At the end of the first half the Broncos were down 13. Both 3Q possessions Tebow went 3 and out. First 4Q possession was a 3 and out. A 28 yard run by McGahee virtually set-up the Tebow rushing TD and McGahee scored the 2 pointer. Knowshon ran a short pass for 28 yards for another TD. With the opportunity to tie, The Anointed One threw a practically uncatchable ball to Lloyd that was "dropped".
Basically this is my position. I happen to be a fan of Tebow who thinks he has a long way to go as a quarterback. I also think he was terrible down the stretch when the Broncos backed into the playoffs. When about 80 to 90% of the talking heads hate on a player, I automatically root for him. I think most analysts are idiots who follow what everybody else says most of the time. You can see it with the draft year in and year out. I also respect Tebow as a person. This is not because of all the good causes he supports, (plenty of players support good causes) but because he stands up for what he believes in even though it isn't popular. I have always respected people who don't go along with the crowd, it's kind of what our country was founded on. Just my thoughts.
The issue here is that Tebow was brought in to a) Run the ball and b) shorten Mark's leash. If Tebow isn't starting by the end of the year it means Mark is healthy and Mark performed well-enough to keep the starting job. Given Mark's youth, if Mark continues to develop and succeed through this year then Tebow's "inevitable" starting for the "jury to be sufficiently out", per se, will have to happen in another jersey.
I agree with your statement, but why can't most Jets fans see the positive in that. It's not like you guys gave up the farm to get him. Enjoy the ride you might like it. The sheer entertainment factor of talking heads trying to explain something they said couldn't and wouldn't happen is really fun.
I meant it as "assuming Tebow's going to be starting as a Jet at some point", it is very unlikely (barring injury) that if he doesn't end up starting a single game in 2012 that he will end up as a starter anytime in 2013. It was meant as an addition to your assessment that "tebow could benefit from a year of benching and learning then the opportunity to start in 2013 once he has absorbed everything".
if Sanchez has another year like last year, and a season on the bench does indeed lead to improvement by Tebow I can see him starting next year. Worst case he shows what he can do in preseason and gets a shot elsewhere. Sanchez can't afford to have another statistically mediocre season, he is getting to the point where he either breaks out or has peaked.
someone is being a dick on the internet...STOP THE PRESSES!!! no worries, like I said no guarantee Tebow actually improves, but if he does it can't do anything but help the Jets
Wow, nice way to completely minimize Tebow's impact on the game. You talk about McGahee's 28 yard run, and then downplay and gloss over Tebow's 11 yard scramble to get Denver to the 12 yard line. Then Tebow runs QB Power up the middle for a 12 yard TD. On the play to Moreno, Tebow stood in the face of heavy pressure on a blitz and hit Moreno on a screen. Lastly, on the final drive of the game, there was 24 seconds left and Denver had the ball on THEIR 20 yard line. Tebow opened up with a 20 yard pass to Lloyd. Then followed that up with a 31 yard pass to Fells, putting the ball on the SD 29 yard line. Tebow spiked the ball to stop the clock with 1 second left. Yeah, Denver's 20 to SD's 29 in 2 plays covering 23 seconds (counting the time that it took to get to the LoS and spike the ball). On the final play, Tebow was chased out of the pocket, was running to his right, had a SD defender chasing him from behind, had another SD defender closing on him from the front, and his pass went into the endzone where they were a number of players from both teams all bunched together. Not saying that Tebow played a great game, but he sure as hell did a LOT better than Orton, WITH THE SAME TEAM that Orton had.
Do u feel u have to commit on anything when somebody wants to give someone other then Tebow credit for winning a game?
U been on here since March and have over 300 post on here. How many of them don't have to do with Tebow? I been on here over 8 years and I bet by the season starts u will have more post then me.
Tebow, in a couple limericks: The Jets turn to Tebow as the savior For a limp offense and bad behavior When fans got the good news They responded with boos As he’s already out of their favor A great O’ the Jets claim they’re amassing But the fans now are Tebow harassing So he’d better pray God tells him what to say Cause he won’t win fans over with passing!
Von Miller played with Orton they were 1-4 and Von Miller also publicly stated that Tebow definitely sparked the team and turned them around. so Von Miller is not the best example to use since he agrees with me.
You call it "minimization" I call it "correctness". 28 yd run vs a 11 and a 12. Don't forget Tebow's no-gain on 1st and 10 at the SD 12. The Power run TD just wasn't anything other than a well-designed play by the Broncos-- Tebow didn't get touched (http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d822fa689/Tebow-12-yard-TD-run). McGahee outgained Tebow and while Tebow scored the TD and played well; the point is that, although Tebow managed to successfully scramble twice, he also threw 5 consecutive incomplete passes leading up to those scrambles (in the 3Q and 4Q) including one on 3rd and 4 on DEN 38 he threw a short incomplete pass that prevented Denver from having the opportunity to lead at any time in the 4Q. As for the Moreno play, any QB not named Jay Cutler or David Carr makes that play. Tebow was "under pressure" but he wasn't under "oh fuck, Wayne Hunter did it again" pressure; the defender lunged at him too early to try and disrupt the pass ergo he wasn't hit hard and he does deserve credit for seeing the approaching defender and dumping the ball off to the nearest receiver (http://www.sportsonenetwork.com/videos/18761/tim-tebow-connects-with-knowshon-moreno-for-touchdown). The fumble gave Denver excellent field position to start the drive, and this play was all about Moreno's YAC as opposed to "Tebow stood in the face of heavy pressure on a blitz". Moreno caught the ball 2 yards behind the LOS and managed to run through a crowded final 10 yards and dive into the endzone. Being forced to throw into the endzone with :01 on the clock from 29 yards away spells game over unless your last name is Flutie... Tebow's failure to capitalize on the 2pt meant that Prater couldn't kick the FG. Tebow's passes to Lloyd and Fells were too little too late. The throw to Lloyd wasn't . Instead, on Tebow's behalf, the Holy Ghost temporarily took over Lloyd's body and delivered the one-handed catch (http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d822fb999/Lloyd-s-amazing-catch). The throw was poor and Lloyd bailed him out. The Chargers coverage on the play was perfect: force Lloyd towards the out of bounds with a CB under and a Safety over-- worst case scenario he catches the ball and runs out of bounds but fails to move the ball any further down the field. I understand that some Tebots feel as though exposure to The Anointed One gives his teammates, by association, an increase in talent, strength, speed, and penis size. Personally, I just think it's correlation vs. causation with too small of a sample size. As for the pass to Fells, Tebow had all the time he could've bargained for in the pocket, he walked to the LOS and threw a straight pass directly in front of him to a wide-open Fells (http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-fantasy/09000d5d822fd445/QB-Tebow-to-TE-Fells-31-yd-pass). The Chargers lack of any pressure whatsoever gave Tebow enough time for any QB to find an open receiver downfield. Leading up to the final drive of the game, you can't argue that "Tebow played better than Orton". Instead, you can state that "Tebow fit the Broncos' talent better than Orton". Having to check Tebow as a running threat opened up holes for Moreno and McGahee out of the backfield just as Vince Young would've improved over Orton. Even when he "led" the team (i.e. the 12-yd TD run), he did so on the ground as a wildcat-type run first, pass if I have to QB. The benefit to having him backup Sanchez is that the Jets can milk all they can out of plays designed to play off of Tebow's uniqueness without having to start him.
I thought the discussion was 2010 and 2011. Either way rookies improve as the season goes on. And yes, I understand the "Holy Ghost effect" as I alluded to in a post above. But that just means Tebow's a good leader. If he changes Holmes' attitude, I'll admit he's a miracle worker. If not, he's just like any other leader. Plus, how hard is it to be a better leader than Orton? Orton could've outplayed Tebow 10:1 but throwing good passes doesn't inspire teammates.
It always seems like the proposition on the table starts as "Tebow does not belong in the NFL as a quarterback," (yes or no) but quickly transforms into minute discussions about whether he is better than this NFL quarterback or that NFL quarterback. The level of competence he showed in leading an NFL team to an 8-5 record showed he is at least the caliber of a young QB with potential. The fact that Denver was a dumpster fire before that shows that it wasn't because he was stepping into an easy ride with a juggernaut team. That's all you can really draw from it -- but it invariably devolves into arguments about the defense, the rest of the team, other quarterbacks. All of that is beside the point.
NFL teams are too often broken down into just W's and L's. As I said before, An example I can give is the 2010 Detroit Lions (which most Jets fans remember). The team was legit. One of the better in the NFC. But their record didn't reflect it (6-10). Their losses included: @ CHI by 5, vs PHI by 3, @ GB by 2, @ NYG by 8, vs NYJ by 3 in OT, @ BUF by 2, and vs CHI by 4. It's not as though they had a lot of pretty wins (beat TB by 3 in OT, beat MIA by 7, MIN by 7, GB by 4). Give that Detroit team 24 more points and their record goes from 6-10 to 12-4. In the NFL, shit happens. Whether it's Lloyd making a ridiculous catch or dropping the ball, just as the Lions fell on the poor-side of a stretch of close games the Broncos could have too, making 8-5 actually 2-10 (with wins vs OAK and KC). At that point it doesn't mean Tebow's any worse so much as it means that (for example) the kicker happened to miss instead of make after Tebow drove the ball down the field.
