Look, id love to have T Rich. Unless you would like to see the Jets lose their 2 rounder this year, it would be a huge mistake to trade up for Richardson. Let's be real, the second and third rounds could make or break us this year and those that follow.
When you have as many glaring holes and needs as the Jets, the idea of trading up shouldn't even enter anyone's mind. It's just idiotic plain and simple. For every extra pick they give up, it's one less hole they can address. The people that fall in love with a certain player, can't see that however. All they can do is hero worship. They fantasize about how that one player is gonna become a perennial All Pro that single-handedly lifts the Jets to a SB victory. It's sad that they can't see how that actually hurts the team rather than helps.
thinking about it, losing our 2nd round pick probably would not be that big a deal given how badly we have tended to draft in the second round - look at our second rounders over the last 10 years and we have only ever had 1 good player out of that round (David Harris) and a lot of meh ones (Kellen Clemens, Vlad, justin miller, mike nugent (ffs), John Mcgraw, victor hobson). however, we can still get a really good player at #16 that fills a much bigger need than RB so for that reason only I would be happy to stay put.
I'm really not sure I agree with this type of logic. You are basically saying that since our scouting department is consistently below average in certain rounds, that we should continue to treat those rounds as negligible. I would prefer them to miss again in those rounds to further indict their incompetence. Enabling their incompetence will also compound the problem.
I was more just joking about how badly we have done with our picks in the second round That said our scouting department is pretty crappy IMO - we have usually done well enough with our first round picks but our record in getting anyone decent in rounds 2-7 must surely be below the league average - sadly it seems to be the one area that has escaped a major overhaul.
I think we've done pretty well in rounds 2-7 since Tanny became GM. The problem is that we've traded away many of those picks. 2 Kellen Clemens QB Oregon 2 47 David Harris ILB Michigan 2 61 Vladimir Ducasse T Massachusetts 3 76 Anthony Schlegel LB Ohio State 3 97 Eric Smith DB Michigan State 3 65 Shonn Greene RB Iowa 3 94 Kenrick Ellis DT Hampton 4 112 Joe McKnight RB USC 4 113 Dwight Lowery CB San Jose State 4 103 Brad Smith WR Missouri 4 117 Leon Washington RB Florida State 4 126 Bilal Powell RB Louisville 5 139 John Conner RB 5 150 Jason Pociask TE Wisconsin 5 162 Erik Ainge QB Tennessee 5 153 Jeremy Kerley WR Texas Christian 6 177 Jacob Bender T Nicholls State 6 189 Drew Coleman CB Texas Christian 6 171 Marcus Henry WR Kansas 6 193 Matt Slauson G 7 220 Titus Adams DT 7 235 Chansi Stuckey WR Clemson 7 211 Nate Garner T Arkansas 7 208 Greg McElroy QB Alabama 7 227 Scotty McKnight WR A handfull of those guys it's too early to tell too IMO. I marked the definite misses in red. Looks like more hits than misses so far.
The telling part of that list is really rounds 2 - 4. Here is where scounting makes its moeny back because you need to find starters in these rounds. We have very few complete misses here. 5-7 become much more of a crap shoot where your bettign on falwed talent or limited talents with high charcter/motor. I full expect a miss rate of well over 60% over all and we do failrly well here. Part of our high success rate is the number of times we target a player and go get him, hitting the pick and limiting the total picks made. The next couple of years will be more telling as we have had a greater number of picks and still have several players that could stick or fade out of the league from the last two drafts.
I dont know, I dont think that is a very convincing list. If you look down that list outside of David Harris how many players are there that you would say would be starters on most teams? Shonn Greene (maybe), anyone else?
I agree. I thought it might be interesting to compare the Jets' draft record with the Ravens. Below are the Ravens comparable picks during the same time period. Unless denoted otherwise, they are still on the Ravens or are FAs this year. Four players played one season and are out of the NFL (Ryan LaCasse - Colts), P.J. Daniels (Ravens), David Hale (Ravens), Justin Harper (Ravens). One player (Quinn Sypniewski) played two seasons and is out of the NFL. Yamon Figurs played two seasons for the Ravens, split 2009 with the Lions and Bucs, and split 2010 with the Raiders and the Browns. 2010 - All still on the roster 2 Sergio Kindle OLB - backup OLB 2 Terrence Cody DT - starting NT 3 Ed Dickson TE - starting TE 4 Dennis Pitta TE - backup TE 5 David Reed WR - backup WR 5 Arthur Jones DT - backup DE 6 Ramone Harewood OT 2009 2 Paul Kruger DE - backup OLB 3 Lardarius Webb WR - starting CB 5 Jason Phillips ILB - Panthers 5 Davon Drew TE - backup TE 6 Cedric Peerman - Bengals backup 2008 2 Ray Rice RB - starting RB 3 Tavares Gooden ILB - backup LB 3 Tom Zbikowski SS - backup SS 3 Oniel Cousins OT - backup OT 4 Marcus Smith WR - Buffalo 4 David Hale OT - out of NFL 5 Jared Gaither OT - San Diego - starter/backup 6 Haruki Nakamura FS - backup FS 7 Justin Harper WR - out of NFL 2007 2 - No pick 3 Yamon Figurs - WR - Titans out of NFL 3 Marshall Yanda - OT Starter at RG 4 Antwan Barnes OLB - San Diego - backup OLB 4 LeRon McClain - FB - starting FB 5 Troy Smith - QB - 49ers - backup QB 6 Prescott Burgess - OLB - backup OLB 2006 2 Chris Chester - C - Redskins starting RG 3 David Pittman - CB - Steelers 4 Demetrius Williams - WR - Browns 4 P.J. Daniels - RB - out of NFL 5 Dawan Landry - SS - Jaguars starting FS 5 Quinn Sypniewski - TE - out of NFL 6 Sam Koch - P starting Punter 6 Derrick Martin - CB - Packers 7 Ryan LaCasse - DE - out of NFL Whereas 5 of the Ravens' picks are no longer in the NFL compared with the Jets' 2, 9 of the Ravens picks are starters in the NFL compared to 8 for the Jets.
That is interesting and the two look fairly comparable so maybe I am too hard on our drafting staff. Its a pity I lost my last copy as I remember when looking through my Phil Steeles preview mag it showed you how each player on the roster entered the league and what is stunning is the number of 1st round picks on each team and how each team is so dependent on them (now I know that they are harder to cut for salary reasons but even so the effect is pretty staggering) from a brief look it seemed most players on a team were either 1st rounders or UDFAs. If i get a copy this year (I dont seem to be able to find this info in a one page format anywhere else) I will try to find some time to come up with some stats. If you look at last year's Jets of the starters on offense 6 of them were first round draft picks. On Defense we have 4 first rounders starting and 2 more (Wilson and Maybin) starting on certain packages.
Actually, I don't think it is that comparable. To date, Harris is the lone really good starter in the group. Greene is a notch or so below that. Ellis and Kerley have a lot of potential. Lowery, Coleman, Washington, Slauson, Stuckey, B. Smith and E. Smith (although some would hotly debate the last name) are decent players, who have made some excellent contributions to the Jets. Out of all those players, only 4 are starters and only 11 of 25 (44%) are still with the team. Now look at the Ravens' list. 10 of those players are starting (7 for the Ravens, 3 elsewhere). Ray Rice is a really good starter. Although FB isn't that important any more, McClain is better than Conner, or at least further along in his development. Ovewrall, I think the Ravens' group is better, but if Ellis and Kerley develop as hoped, I think that will skew towards the Jets. Also, out of 36 players drafted, 19 are still on the Ravens (52.7%). Out of those picks, the Ravens have more players (5) out of the NFL, than the Jets (2), but I don't know the reason why those players are out of the NFL. I know at least one of the Ravens players was injured his rookie season. I don't know if it was a career-ending injury or if he just wasn't very good. That seems to make the Jets look better, but when you consider that several of the Jets' higher draft picks in that range (Ducasse and Ellis) have hardly seen the field or contributed at all, whereas all of the Ravens' 2nd and 3rd round picks have played and contributed and roughly half of the Ravefns picks in those rounds (6 of 13) are starting or have started. Also notice that during that span, the Jets have had 3 - second round picks and 4 - third round picks. During that span the Ravens have had 5 second rounders and 8 - third rounders. That dramatically increases your odds of finding good, solid NFL players. I wish I had time to do it for GB, NE, Pittsburgh, the Niners and the Giants as a comparison.
Not sure why it should matter how many guys are starters in the nfl if its for a different team. Fact is most of these guys BLOW, McClain isn't in the ravens btw he's on Texans I think. Believe Ravens have FA Vonte Leach. Eitherway I don't see how their drafting is anything special comparatively. Also worth noting they draft a TON on low value positions, ie safety and te
I think the bolded part is clearly the key to this comparison. The Ravens have done a little better than us and have done it with 6 more 2nd and 3rd round picks. That's a significant number, and is caused directly by trading up and trading away picks as if they're Fleer baseball cards. Keep your picks and trust the scouting department to do there job correctly. If they don't, upgrade the scouting department.
Not sure why it should matter that draft picks are starters? Are you serious? That absolutely shows their Scouting Dept. and GM know what they are doing. When more players taken in the 2nd - 7th rounds become starters, it shows that your franchise is in good hands and you'll have a stead flow of excellent talent to work with and not have to constantly sign big ticket FAs and trade up in the draft. Fact. Right. The only fact is that you are clueless, dude. If those guys "blow" as you say, the Ravens wouldn't be a very good team, especially since they don't have an elite QB, yet the Jets can't beat them and they're consistently one of the top teams in the AFC.
I haven't been able to make up my mind about this situation yet. TRich is one of the best prospects to come out in a long time. OLine and WR are holes in the offense that need to be filled, but the addition of a super star RB helps immensley when dealing with defensive schemes. I don't care how good the OLine and WRs are.. when a defensive can put 6-7 in the box and still control the run, the offense is going to have a difficult moving the ball. But with the prospects at OLB and OL that should be available at our pick, its hard to throw that away
Really just depends on what happens in free agency. A good March could free the Jets up to be flexible if a favorable deal came about.
If they end up being a starter for a DIFFERENT team do you really give credit to the GM/Scouting department who let them go ? Should I give the Bills credit for drafting Maybin if he ends up getting 16+ sacks for us next year ?
You can't fault the scouting department when the coaches and GM failed. They identified the talent, thus did there job well.
True but dont they play a role in knowing how the development should turn out ? I KNOW the GM has a role in this, eitherway its hard to give credit to a team for giving up on a guy and having him shine elsewhere. And if a player ends up sucking in your system which leads to getting cut, some of that blame surely goes to the scouting as well.
Sure you can. If the scouting department sees a guy as being able to fit a certain scheme (3-4 defense, west coast offense) but they go on to have success in something that fits their skills more, that's on the scouts as much as anyone.
