I keep reading and hearing people say that we no longer have the backs or O-line to run an effective ground and pound offense. But watching this offense over the last few weeks..maybe they aren't averaging quite the YPC they did back in 2009, but I don't see a ton of difference. I see the same blocking scheme that is generally just as effective, and I see Greene punishing defenders much like Jones did in 2009. The problem is, Unlike in 2009/portions of 2010...the offense is giving up on the run too easily. Everyone wants to see the big gains. But when you are facing 8/9 guys in the box, especially early in the game when the D is fresh, you are going to have a few minimal 2-3 yard gains. Back in 2009, the ball was run stubbornly, and eventually the philosophy of "ground and pound" proved its worth late in games. Why? Eventually a big O-line, and a punishing back start to wear down a D. Additionally,Greene has proven to be a player that gets better with every snap. We saw this in the Washington game as their front 7 basically wore down by the game's end, and didn't even want to ATTEMPT to fill run lanes or tackle Greene. Give greene carries, let the O-line punish the line of scrimmage, and eventually the running/passing lanes will open. It's all about patience w/ the playcalling and with the fan base!
Ding Ding Ding!!! We have a winner. You can't ground and pound when you abandon the run as often as we do. Everyone blames Schotty, as do I most of the time, but is this more of a case of a rebellious coordinator or a HC that won't put his foot down and demand last say on the call. If it is a Rex issue, it shows he will only be as succesful as his OC allows him to be. Run that ball, and we can win.
The ability to Ground and Pound is not there like it was in 2009 and probably not close to 2010 either. Alan Faneca was a huge factor in the G&P 2009 edition. Damien Woody was important too and Wayne Hunter was the extra big guy when they really wanted to grind it out. If you look at the Jets over the last four seasons the decline in the G&P becomes clear. 2008 - 422 attempts, 2004 yards, 20 TD's, 4.7 YPA. 2009 - 607 attempts, 2756 yards, 21 TD's, 4.5 YPA. 2010 - 534 attempts, 2374 yards, 14 TD's, 4.4 YPA. Projected this season: 2011 - 429 attempts, 1606 yards, 13 TD's, 3.7 YPA. We're well below the level we were in 2008 when we had Brett Favre throwing the ball around. The ability to dictate on the ground just isn't there at this point and there is no way we can run against a good run defense in the playoffs. We'll get shutdown flat if we try that. Why have we declined? 1. The offensive line just isn't as good as what we had back then. It's not just Hunter and Slauson either. Brandon Moore is a solid guard but he was pancaking people at 29 and he's not there at this point. We used to be able to run at will on the strong side behind Moore and Woody and that's not happening now. We used to be able to grind up the middle between Faneca, Mangold and Moore and we can't do that either at this point. Ground and Pound takes an exceptional line and the Jet's line is no longer exceptional. 2. We don't have the backs to make Ground and Pound work. We have nobody that we could hand 280 carries too and expect 4.4 yards a carry. Greene would break down under that workload and none of the other guys can get yards on their own at this point. We had 607 carries in 2009. We don't have the backs to get to 500 this season. By definition G&P is out of the question without the backs to make it happen.
i agree somewhat the line may have regressed a little, and shonne greene seems to be hitting the holes a bit slower so they are much smaller and in turn he is getting tripped up as soon as he makes it through. thing is, those holes get bigger as the game goes on, and shonne will start making it to the next level with greater consistency. but i definitely agree the team gives up on the run much too fast in games. the passing game needs to open up as well though for the run to become more effective. the receivers need to stretch the field both horizontally and vertically.
I agree that the O-line isn't what it was in 2008 and 2009. I will say however that Slauson is a better fit for this run scheme than Faneca was.Faneca was more of a trap/pull blocker than so a straight ahead punishing drive blocker at the point in his career when he was a Jet. The real change in the OL is indeed the right side. Hunter is an above average run blocker but he's nowhere near the level that Woody was at. Additionally, Moore has drastically depleted this season, and is not getting the push he once did. With that said..I still see a decent push at the line of scrimmage and I still see holes for the runners to run through. The more opportunities this line has to enforce their will on the opposition, the better the results seem to be. As for the backs...I really don't have a problem w/ Greene or his production. He typically plays through injuries and again..when he gets 20+ carries his production spikes. The problem I see is the depth behind him. I think Mcknight has a place on this team as an "all purpose" playmaker. LT is a great 3rd down back....but no longer can he give you 10-15 carries between the tackles with any consistency. The franchise and many experts like Bilal Powell...but i see a smallish back w/ absolutely no burst to the hole. I think the team needs to explore another back capable of consistently running between the tackles to spell Greene and to provide a change of pace. My argument is not that the running game is as good as it was in year's prior. My point is that the potential is still there to be effective. The problem is lack of commitment from a playcalling perspective and the fact that the team always seems to be playing from behind.
The quality of the Oline definitely isn't what it was in '09 but I think the bigger problem is that Greene tends to get hurt too often to run as much as Jones did. He's already playing with sore ribs that apparently aren't going to heal until the offseason and LT/McKnight are obviously not Ground n Pound style runners. Powell is still basically an unknown at this point. That said, I still think they should be sticking to the run more than they do, even if it means they have to spread the carries between LT/McKnight/Greene rather than just pounding away with Greene.
hey georges st. pierre got hurt. he is going to miss his next fight... oh wait thats the OTHER place they use the term ground and pound. damn wrong forum anyway the jets do have the ability to run the ball, but they need to do it consistently against decent defenses. i have very little faith in shonn greene staying healthy getting more and more carries. and beyond him you can forget about it.
Good post, my sentiments exactly. Give us a stubborn pound them out run game and we can reach the play offs.
Greene is well on his way to becoming a premier back if he can put on some weight and work on a stiff arm.
Faneca's pulling blocks blasted open some nice holes....... in 2009 we had two workhorse backs, now we have one. Could Powell become the late season rookie energy burst ala Greene 2009?
Let me tell you what I observed. 1. Naked off-tackle run to the left that got stuffed for 1 yard gain on 1st and 10. (Man, I love Schottenheimer.) 2. Followed up by run up the gut (straight into the teeth of run blitz) for a gain of 2. Now, are you telling me Jets should go with a run on 3rd and 7? Why don't you also claim Jets should call DRAW in that situation too? Then Schottenheimer can earn the title of Paul Hackett Lite while he's at it too.
Put on some weight ? Dudes 230 LBS. He isn't running guys over cause he as an ongoing rib injury, that's the reason he stays on the ground in pain almost every play.
But all the "experts" say the landscape of the NFL has changed and it's now a QB driven league and you can't win unless you throw the ball 60x a game!
To be honest... I think that injury helped him relax as far as his body control. Hopefully he learns better ways to protect himself and progresses to be a everydown back
I remember when Greene broke into the league with his punishing style running. At least one cometary noted the Greene will lose the battle over time. After all, it's one 'Greene' vs 2x16=32 Line Backers over the course of a season.
Yeah the injury definitely took his physical nature away some but when he gets 100% i see him being back to a brute back that we learned to love.
What does that prove? There are plenty examples when they passed in situations that should have been runs. It's not about one particular drive, it's the overall pattern.
I really do not believe the Jets are capable of Ground and Pound this season. The personnel isn't here to do that. We're on a pace to have as many rushing attempts as 2008 but with 20% fewer yards. That's just reality. I think the Jets would have gone back to a more run-oriented defense after the first 4 or 5 games but they realized that this was not going to work this season due to missing pieces in the plan. If you look at the Jets passing attempts vs runs in the 12 games so far it breaks down like this: Week 1 - 48 pass attempts, 16 rushes, win. Week 2 - 25 pass attempts, 32 rushes, win. Week 3 - 48 pass attempts, 25 rushes, loss. Week 4 - 37 pass attempts, 19 rushes, loss. Week 5 - 28 pass attempts, 25 rushes, loss. Week 6 - 27 pass attempts, 29 rushes, win. Week 7 - 35 pass attempts, 31 rushes, win. week 8 - 29 pass attempts, 39 rushes, win. Week 9 - 44 pass attempts, 25 rushes, loss. Week 10 - 43 pass attempts, 28 rushes, loss. Week 11 - 35 pass attempts, 23 rushes, win. Week 12 - 32 pass attempts, 30 rushes, win. In other words, despite the Jets intentions to go back to Ground and Pound they actually chose not to do that. The only game in which they have a pass-run percentage that would suggest G&P is the first Buffalo game. They have passed more than they have run in 9 out of 12 games this season including the last 4 in a row. They chose to pass a lot more than they ran even against one of the worst run defenses in the league in the Raiders. This is not surprising. The team has no established identity on offense at this point and they have no place to escape to because their primary successful scheme of the recent past is limited by a failure to retain or acquire the players necessary to run it well.
