Arsenal?s Position by Position Analysis (Linebackers) [Part 1] There is no position harder on defense to learn than the LB position. With the inherent move to the 3-4 defense, some of our players will have a tough time to make a transition. The advantage however is that the NY Jets come into this season with more depth at the LB position than ever before. After being our strength for the past two seasons, the law firm of Tannenbaum and Mangini fortified that position for good with the additions of Brad Kassell, Matt Chatham, Alonzo Jackson and Anthony Schlegel. This along with the former: Jonathan Vilma, Eric Barton, Victor Hobson, Mondoe Davis, Darrell McClover, Bryan Thomas, Trevor Johnson and Ryan Myers create a dynamic group capable of playing both in the 4-3 defense and the 3-4 defense. So far as per camp reports this is the breakdown on starters and competitors: 3-4 Defense First Team OLB: Bryan Thomas ILB: Jonathan Vilma ILB: Eric Barton OLB: Brad Kassell/Victor Hobson Second Team OLB: Victor Hobson/Brad Kassell ILB: Anthony Schlegel ILB: Matt Chatham OLB: Trevor Johnson (I am not sure about Alonzo Jackson but I am sure he is getting in the mix with the second team) 4-3 Defense First Team ?Sam? LB: Victor Hobson/Brad Kassell ?Mike? LB: Jonathan Vilma ?Will? SLB: Eric Barton Second Team ?Sam? LB: Victor Hobson/Brad Kassell ?Mike? LB: Anthony Schlegel ?Will? SLB: Matt Chatham At least that is what my assumption is based on their past experiences. I see Trevor Johnson as a pass rushing LB used for substitution situations in the past few weeks. Now, that second team is pretty damn good for a 4-12 team which was, what?!?, 28th in the league in rushing defense. Furthermore, we now have a whole medley of different players for different situations. I can?t help but to be excited about this situation we have in New York. Here is my analysis on every single player we have right now: Jonathan Vilma: Jon worries me in the 3-4. He is a great fit for the 4-3 as he is able to run around and attack the ball and be freed from the constraint of two mauling lineman coming after him. He has excellent speed and instinct. He likes to move around players rather than engage and attack the ball carrier. He loves to blitz and use his speed on zone blitzes and ?stack? blitzes. He also has excellent coverage skills in the flats and deep center where he has picked off a few errant passes. The problem is that the 3-4 defense does not use much of the talents that Vilma possesses. I wish I could clarify more but here is one of the best arguments I ever heard about the Jon Vilma problem from one of my earlier threads by The Paranoid Jet I hope he does not have trouble with me advertising his work.
I repeat, one of the best posts I have ever read on this board. I am sure most of you know my issues with the 3-4 and Jonathan Vilma. The only slight addition I would want to make to the argument is this: Jon Vilma has always been compared to Ray Lewis in terms of size, skill, speed, and instinct. Then we can also logically say that Jon Vilma will react the same way as Ray Lewis did. Now, Lewis is a great player who has always made plays whether it he was in the 3-4 or the 4-3, but the one thing I did note is that Lewis has more ?plays? in the 4-3 than the 3-4. We want to maximize player strengths. Can we honestly say that putting 320+ lineman on our playmaking MLB is a smart move? People may argue that for the team that it is better for us to have the 3-4 is a better defense to have and I think that is thorough BULL****. We were a 4-3 team and will still be a better 4-3 team even with the countless additions. I am happy that both Pouha and Robertson are doing well in camp at NT but still, we are a 4-3 team. I know that (speaking in Pareto terms) that if the defense is better overall in the 3-4 even if Vilma is worse off, then it is the right move. In this case, it isn?t. I have expressed my doubts before and I don?t want to add to what I know is going to be my longest post yet. But before I close the analysis on Vilma, here is an interesting idea. Many thought, my self included that Vilma could be an OLB in the 4-3 defense (?Will?). Well, is it that far fetched that he cannot play OLB in the 3-4, at least part time? He has excellent coverage of the flats, and he is an excellent zone blitzer. If he disguises his blitzes by stunting inside and outside, won?t that create confusion and originality? Usually in the 3-4, one LB blitzes while the rest stay in coverage. Considering teams will never expect it from Vilma, he could wreck some havoc in the 3-4 OLB position. Just a thought? Brad Kassell: I?ll admit it; I knew little of Kassell as he joined our club. I knew he was a LB who had a decent rating on Madden. After some lurking in Titans boards and some research, here is what I could find about his playing style. For all the old school folks around here, Butkus? Lambert? Nitschke? Those were the three meanest LB?s in football, PERIOD. Hell, I was scared looking at their pictures online. Wasn?t Nitschke rumored to chew barber wire and spit nails? Well fellas, the good news is that Kassell is in that mold. He is your ?old school? tough LB who would kill to lay a smack on any player, be it a QB to an OG. Hard worker, over achiever, in your face type personality, Kassell fits with the NY Jets motto of toughness. No more does that show in the running game. I would hate to be one-on-one with this guy. He does well in ramped area. He is the antithesis of Vilma and engages with offensive lineman. He is a tackle compiler but in a good way as you know someone did get their head knocked around on the other side. He also has his share of weaknesses. His hips and rotation are weak and he lacks the athletic ability to stay with the premier TE?s and premier RB?s in the flats. I would call him a liability in pass coverage if it has to do with a large area. He doesn?t have a nose for the ball once it is in the air. He runs a average 4.8 or so, he isn?t a snail. He has a weakness in running and tackling at the flats. Tosses and sweeps are his biggest challenge. John Q Max is who Kassell reminds me of. Here is a snippet on how Kassell rose up to be a NFL LB. Now, back to game-planning, Kassell seems like a perfect fit at ILB. I don?t know why Mangini is not using him this way. Unless he expects Kassell to have an easier time knowing that all he has to do is cover the outside, Kassell is playing out of position. He is not a great blitzer as he does not have the agility to move around an OT on the outside and all he can do is engage. Engaging is fine, but he will find it hard to disengage. I doubt what he can do in the 3-4 in this light. See Kassell there on third and short, SY and GL situations. Do not expect him to be covering Vernon Davis 50 yards down the field.
Bryan Thomas: My favorite player and the one guy I have been rooting for ages. He is tremendously gifted and IMO is the perfect fit for the 3-4 defense. He is fast, strong, hard working, tough, smooth, and our newest pass rusher. Here is an old analysis I never get tired of using: Bryan "Head Hunter" Thomas (nickname from High School) Position: Defensive End/Outside Linebacker College: Alabama-Birmingham Height: 6-4 Weight: 266 Hometown: Birmingham, Ala. I want to dispel the notion that the NY Jets have lost its only pass rusher. The infamous Bryan Thomas, though raw, will adequately replace John Abraham at the Right Defensive End position. More commonly known as ?the bastard who we picked instead of Ed Reed,? Thomas has amazing athletic ability. He was stronger, faster, taller, and heavier coming out at 2002 than John Abraham was coming out at 2000. In fact, he is faster and stronger presently than he ever has been. As stated above Bryan Thomas has all the measurables you look for in the prototypical defensive end. He is around 6?4? and now 275 lbs. (the stats above are his combine numbers). He ran a 4.47 second Forty Yard Dash, defeating Abraham?s previous time of 4.52 seconds. He also lifted 225 lbs. a whopping 33 times!!! Just for the people who do not understand these numbers, that is two repetitions less than Mario Williams and equivalent to Vernon Davis?s numbers. Hell, let me just give you his combine numbers so you believe me. AGILITY TESTS 4.47 in the 40-yard dash ? 2.61 in the 20-yard dash ? 1.6 in the 10-yard dash ? 4.01 in the 20-yard shuttle ? 34.5-inch vertical jump ? Bench presses 225 pounds 33 times ? 550-pound squat ? 33 ?-inch arm length ? 9-inch hands. If that isn?t a specimen I don?t know what is. Anyway to continue with my analysis, Bryan Thomas is a prototype. He is exactly what you want from a pass rusher. The picture above is not helpful enough but think Jason Taylor physique. Now to the analysis of his game type play I evaluate Defensive End/Rush Line Backers with the following in mind *No particular order, it is very hard to judge a DE/OLB trait importance. You need to be complete 1. Burst (Acceleration) 2. Agility (Cut Back Inside) 3. Strength (Ability to Keep Offensive Lineman away from chest, Ability to Bull Rush, Shedding) 4. Tackling 5. Read/Recognition 6. Gain Leverage (Run Game) 7. Size (Measurables) 8. Pursuit 1. Bryan Thomas is the perfect burst player. He shows a tremendous first step quickly getting outside or inside depending on his gap responsibility. He ran his 20 yard dash in 2.61 seconds which is fast enough for a WR. He closes to the QB moving into him which crunching force. 2. He has a very good shuttle time (4.01 seconds) but he does have trouble moving inside after the initial outside step due to shedding. He also has good lateral movement to the flats during his short time at OLB at UAB. If in open space, he can probably defeat any offensive lineman with ease. 3. He has great arm strength with long arms, keeping offensive lineman away from his chest. He also can bull rush with his amazing core strength in his quads and back. He gets leverage often in pass situations due to this burst, pushing offensive lineman back and creating more room to move to the gap and reach the Quarterback. His main problem with strength is shedding. He has a torrid time trying to get away from Offensive Lineman who grabs his chest. If he is locked out, he will not get the Quarterback, it?s that simple. The corresponding problem is that he is so aware of his weakness that he wastes time protecting it. He has to learn to use his monster arms better. In the NFL, OT?s will lock on with much more ease than in college and they are athletic enough to move with him. 4. He has great crunching force on the QB, causing fumbles and injuries but he has terrible form tackling. He tackles with his arms rather than body. He also arm tackles the thighs going too low to get a proper grip of the player. He has slipped of many running backs where he could make impact plays. 5. He is TERRIBLE in this portion of the game. He has terrible recognition of pass or run and will also move incorrectly taking himself out of the play. If he ever wants to play OLB, he better improve on this aspect of the game. Known to take bite on play fakes and play action. Once he knows what is happening he can get back into position quite quickly but his mistakes are so large that it is very difficult to get him self back into the play. 6. He has very good leverage in the run game as running games are usually aiming to run through gaps rather than lineman but he has troubles similar to Abraham where he cannot gain leverage straight through on running situations directed right at him (In running situations, OT?s go forward easily reaching their target while on passing situations DE have creativity to get to the QB). He is surprisingly good against runs to the outside which is interesting considering that he has trouble shedding. It shows he has all the ability but lacks instinct. Another interesting note is that ever since he has been a pro he has greatly improved in this aspect of his game. 7. Size See above. He has a prototype size?what else can you ask for? 8. He has a great motor and is always fired up. With respect on this team as a veteran he can greatly increase his leadership role. As we can see above he has all the potential in the world and is yet to put it into a complete package. His talent is very rare and if harnessed correctly he can really be a playmaker. He is a good kid who wants to get better. A Mangini type for sure. He should do well as the weak side (RDE) in the 4-3 system while being a great ?rush backer? in the 3-4 system. We have seen the flashes, all we need is consitency. Here are some interesting quotes?. ?He has natural pass rush ability, which is something that of all the ends in the draft, our coaches felt he was the most natural of the group,? (Terry Bradway) He has great speed,? said Dick Haley, the Jets? director of player personnel who will retire after this draft. ?And, he?s naturally strong, and he?s quick and has good rush moves. He?s got the tools and he uses them. He?s a dedicated player. Everything was positive coming out. He ran a blazing time at Indianapolis (NFL Combine). He strained a muscle, but came back and was able to work out for us after that. Any time you run 4.5 or under at Indianapolis, you?re one of the fast guys there.? (Dick Haley) ?Might be a Steelers Rush Linebacker? (Pro Football Weekly) ?He can go backward; John [Abraham] could not go backward.? Bryan Thomas will be the star of this defense. Write it down, he will have a ten sack season (as long as teams don?t run on us all the time), he will smother QB?s into a pulp. He has looked good in camp sure, but watch him in the game. I may be questioning every other player on this team but there is no one player I am confident about than Bryan Thomas. When he subbed for John Abraham, Jonathan Ogden was said to say he had trouble with Thomas?s movement. Steeler fans recognized this. ?Who is #99?? they said during the playoff game. ?He gave Marvel Smith loads of trouble?. Yes, he never got the stats to back him up, but watching the game you knew he was attacking the ball in the QB?s hands. His improvements against the run will also help him in run coverage to the outside. In short, he is more athletic than Manuel Lawson who some (myself included) were fawning over on draft day. Call him a ?Bradway Bust?, call him a ?workout warrior?, and call him an ******* since we could have got Ed Reed. No matter what he will dominate?. (Call me out on this later, barring injuries) That is it for now, I will talk about the other LB?s later?.Jeez, this is a record in size or something for longest post ever?. Hope you all like it (it is sort of a compilation with the new ideas)
Lots of interesting thoughts here, but this: First Team OLB: Bryan Thomas ILB: Jonathan Vilma ILB: Eric Barton OLB: Brad Kassell/Victor Hobson Second Team OLB: Victor Hobson/Brad Kassell ILB: Anthony Schlegel ILB: Matt Chatham OLB: Trevor Johnson I don't agree with at all. As of a couple of days ago, it was this at camp: OLB: Johnson/Thomas ILB: Vilma ILB: Barton OLB: Hobson/Chatham The OLB's have been in a near 50-50 rotation. Kassel is playing ILB, as is Schlegel. Also, it appears that Barton is running interference for Vilma so he remains free to make plays and tackles. Personally, I still think Hobson would be the better choice to play inside to protect Vilma and take up blockers, but that isn't how it's gone so far. I'm a little surprised you would put so much time in on a post, and not know Chatham is strictly OLB or that Kassel is strictly ILB at this point. ???
Some good points Gooner. Kassell/Chatham?Schlegal will be the beef that Vilma needs to play inside. There no way Kassell plays OLB. I like BT too and really hope he comes through.
I don't know much about Chatham, but I know Kassell better be playing inside. As for Thomas, the athletic ability has always been there, but he's been here 3 years, and he has NEVER been a playmaker. He's been steady, but we drafted him to be flashy. If he ever puts it together, we'll be great. I remember Jabba the Jet LOVED Thomas back in 2002, and a lot of other posters agreed with him. It was surprising at 22, but a lot of posters liked him a lot as a prospect. I don't have a ton of confidence on him putting it all together at this stage. He's been in the NFL a while, and he's never shown flashes of brilliance. He's shown that he can be a steady player, but with his skillset, he should be a lot more.
There is an error on the board where posts get edited by regular members(not just Mods),nothing is ever actualy changed though.Another great point.
I would think the LB would look like this OLB-Thomas/Johnson ILB- Vilma ILB- Hobson/Kassell/Schlegel OLB- Barton/Chattam My main concern is Hobson on the outside in space??? Why arnt they playing him in the middle? He played in a 3-4 at UM and was in the middle and really blew it up. I can see him as the "thumper" in the middle.....just not that good in space if you ask me....And why is barton in the middle??? Size wise he is very similar to vilma, and if DROB is the NT we are very lean up the middle in terms of beef...I would switch barton and Hobson....Barton excells in space and would be ideal for the other OLB spot?
Not my fault dude, TGG banned me.....what to do? Go to the other site and they kept me. JI is still my first site though I have no ill will toward the TGG
