I just want you to know that when I viewed this as a quote in the reply section, it was a giant block. luckiestman has a pretty good grasp on it. Our OLine troubles have boiled down to the following: -Talent: 1. Colin Baxter was a poor excuse for a replacement for Nick Mangold. After Turner went down we needed to bring someone in as an insurance police for Turner. The FO picked Baxter thinking he could do it. He couldn't cut it, now that Mangold is back Baxter has been shown the door. I'm guessing Callahan and a part in the evaluation that lead to that decision. 2. Wayne Hunter was a signing I didn't like as a backup and I liked even less as a starter. If it comes to a point in the season where the Jets are absolutely eliminated from contention, I would have to think for a long minute for reasons to not throw Ducasse out there instead to at least see what the team has in him before we spend more than one pick on a RT in the draft. I don't see how he can be much worse than Hunter especially given our upcoming schedule. 3. Matt Mulligan is a special teams player. He's nothing more than that and the fact that he's treated as such is evidence of the CS and FO over-rating the roster. 4. Ferguson and Mangold: I mention Mangold simply because when he isn' in there the OLine hurts badly and it shows. Three games this season were more than enough evidence that Mangold deserves the team offensive MVP at least. As for Brick, he's had a shit year. Yes, he's been facing some of the best pass-rushers on our opponents' roster but that's exactly where the FO expected him to succeed when they spent a fourth-overall pick on him. If you want my best guess as to how he's dropped off so hard I'd have to go with injury or personal problems because Callahan was the OLine coach when Brick started to really excel and he was there while Brick had to play mentor to Slauson last season and still had a good year. Now he's getting pushed back by guys the Patriots find bagging groceries the week before and I seriously doubt Callahan took a look at a successful LT protecting a rookie with the richest contract in team history and said, "You know that shit you do that works? Let's try something else." -Scheme: Callahan's main job is teaching the protection scheme and technique to the offensive line. However, that scheme is only going to be as good as the personnel he has can make it(Spoilers: there are holes on that front) and how the OC chooses to implement it. Schottenheimer is the one who draws up the plays and Schottenheimer is the one who calls them. When I see Elvis Dumervil or Von Miller matched up one-on-one with Matt Mulligan without any support from the backfield on more than one occasion, it becomes painfully obvious that there's a decision-maker who isn't learning from his own mistakes. -Execution: Sanchez needs to improve his ability to read the defense and make line adjustments. That's all that I need to say for this one. All of that being said, Callahan probably has his own flaws. You have to be able to teach more than just future hall of famers. While I think Slauson's performance this season is evidence of that, it's not a proving factor. The problem is that the flaws of the offensive scheme overall and the over-rating of the personnel by the FO have left enough debris to cover Callahan's flaws for now.
I'm actually not that angry about it, just verbose...and buzzed off of sweet sweet alcohol which tends to make me want to talk more than usual.
I agree with pretty much everything you said my biggest question is how can be so sure that it wasn't the previous OL that made Callahan appear to be much better of a coach then he really was? Let's remember Woody and dude from Steelers (can't believe I'm forgetting his name) were both PB players before he got here. Woody, Brick and Mangold were all 1st round picks so it's not like they were 6th and 7th round picks or journeymen players who just showed up at the door. I'm not saying it's easy to do that job but I think most quality OL coaches could have a quite successful OL with the talent on that roster. The Great ones are measured by what they do with less and we're finding out that Callahan isn't getting much done with garbage particularity Hunter and Ducasse.
Before you see the fact that I quoted separate paragraphs of your response I feel as though I should say that the following is not presented with any malice. Anyway... Callahan has had much more experience coaching and succeeding with OLines way before he came to the Jets. Yes, having better personnel always helps but when he came in, Brick was still struggling with his role. Woody was a pro-bowler but he earned that honor as a guard playing inside with New England which later cut him due to diminishing performance and age. He didn't start playing tackle full time until he joined the Lions and he struggled at that position in the beginning and was eventually let go by the pre-Jim Schwartz Lions. As for Alan(Guy from Pittsburgh) Faneca, great run-blocker, shit pass-pro. He was a turnstile by the time he left. The problem that I have with this argument whenever I see it is that my first thought is "so the fuck what?" Their draft position is the sum of their college career and the evaluations done by the FO. Ducasse was picked in the second round yet everyone writes him off as a bust instead of wondering why Callahan cannot reach him. You're right to point out that Brick, Mangold and Woody were talented players. Their draft position really only matters in terms of their rookie contracts and grading against other drafts a few years down the line. (again, no intended malice) Even the great OLine coaches can't do too much with garbage. Wayne Hunter had the best success of his career blocking as the 4th or 5th TE on running plays. He doesn't have the talent to start in the NFL. He's almost Adrien Clarke on the outside. As for Ducasse, his football IQ appears to be right around zero. He'll be a wasted #2 pick for the rest of his career unless he starts off next season as the first of 10 consecutive all-pro years. He might still have some value with the team and getting bounced around from RT to LG to RG for his first two seasons - including a shortened preseason and minimal contact with the coaching staff. At this point, I think Ducasse's future might be the best measuring stick for Callahan's coaching career with the Jets, at least as a position coach. And before we go any further, I'm not whole-heartedly endorsing him as the best choice for the next OC(to answer the second part of your OP). He has a few things going for him, namely that he knows the personnel already on the team and has prior experience at that position. However, as I said before, he probably does have some flaws in his coaching. It's just difficult to see all of them when you have the more glaring flaws of coordinator sounding louder alarms.
Sanchez holds the ball too long and makes bad decisions such as not throwing it away when he has nothing or throwing 7 ft over the head of an open man in the end zone. Its a QB league and our QB has let this team down. Yes the OL had some blown assignments but that isn't the main reason for the lack of offensive success - its play calling and QB execution. I mean that direct snap call to McKnight was total FUBAR. Thats not on the OL either.
I'm surprised Moore is getting a free pass... I think age + hip surgery + lack of training after the hip surgery really slowed him down! That said I pretty much agree with Cato on the main argument... One thing though... usually when OL coaches get promoted to OC they don't try to run a "I'm smarter than you" offense (like Schotty) but keep it more basic. That would do Sanchez good...
I think the lack of OTA's hurt the whole line. Guys like D'Brick did not start off the season in shape and it still shows
I also think the reason Callahan is getting a pass is because he is not the one calling a shotgun formation with empty backfield on 2 and 4 in the redzone after your running game has started to establish itself. If you have a weakness on the oline, you don't call plays that exploit your weakness, you call plays that mask or reduce the chances of that weakness being a complete detriment.
I don't think anyone at this point is getting a pass or being held in high regard. As far as I can see there are maybe two guys on this team who are either playing better than before, or were already playing at a high level and still are, and that's Revis and Harris (maybe I would add Wilson as someone who has improved a lot). Other guys have been okay, but not consistently exceptional (Ferguson, Mangold, maybe Cromartie?). The rest of the team has either been consistently mediocre-to-horrible, or has ruined generally good work with awful mistakes at the worst time (McKnight's fumbles, the defense at the end of games). Tannenbaum won't be fired, but he gets a lot of blame. Ryan won't be fired, but he does too. Every other coach should feel that they are on the hot seat. They have too much money invested in Sanchez to dump him, which means that they have to get rid of Schottenheimer - clearly that is a match made in hell.
Callahan gets a pass by asking for his OL in the draft. He is not getting the talen he wants and is working on what he got. Callahan for OC
To me at this point, we have nothing to lose by throwing Vlad out there the rest of the season. He can't be worse than Hunter at this stage, and after a year and a half watching from the bench, maybe he has learned something. I know he's a project, but he's not going to develop without being in the game at some point. Just cut Hunter, throw Vlad in there, and sign a warm body off the street as a backup for the last few weeks.
\ EXACTLY. This is what I have been saying over and over. It's the OC's job to call plays that provide the right protection for the QB, not the O-line coach. if you know you have deficiencies on the line, don't go 4-wide. It's that simple. And regarding the running game and people using Greene's injury as an excuse for Schotty -- Am I the only one who noticed the ground game was BETTER WITH MICKNIGHT??? He actually has genuine burst, hits the hole and accelerates. Greene is a plodder who plays like a fullback. To give more perspective, consider this: McKnight's 121 yards rushing and receiving was more than ALL BUT ONE of Green's 39 career start totals. Maybe we should give this McKnight guy the rock from now on.
