My bad on Warren. I don't really think that there is a point to argue every individual topic here, so I will just say that it seems like you are looking at the free agency moves of these two teams through different lens: 2011 Plaxico = 2010 Edwards, yet you already declare Ocho and Haynesworth useless??? strngplyr did a good job of describing the roles of each of our injured players, although going into 2011 many of these players will have different (or zero) roles in our system. Eric Smith was named starter by Rex Ryan earlier today. http://www.longislandpress.com/2011/08/01/ryan-says-this-is-his-best-jets-roster-2/
Early Vegas lines basically confirm the OP. Patriots are given about a 58% chance of winning the division. Jets are at about 33%. We are 1 point favorites to beat the Pats though still.
I think the point is not so much what these guys are doing this year but how a reduction in the number of guys going on IR would make the team better this year. Some of the names on that list are not first string, but when you have the first string guy out losing the second string guy too may be more of a drop off than from first to second. The thing about Plaxico is interesting. The last time he really played well was 2007. And the gun thing isn't the first time he has made bad off field decisions. Supposedly he is getting a lot of mentoring - that should be standard for guys like this, especially after they leave football and have more time on their hands. Clearly though 4 years ago he was better than Edwards. But this isn't about Plax 2006 vs. Bray 2010. It's Plax 2011 vs Bray 2010.
They have owned the division for the past decade. They even won the division just last season too. Just what the hell makes you think they shouldn't be? Are you out of your fucking mind or something?
I don't think that the additions of Haynesworth and Ochocinco are making the Patriots the favorites to win the division. They finished last season with the best record in the NFL and didn't really lose any important pieces. The Jets had a heck of a playoff run for the second straight year, so don't get me wrong. But I think, given that neither team has made any earth-shaking moves this offseason, it's reasonable.
I don't understand how anyone could have a problem w/ the pats being the favorites. They only win the division every year Brady plays(8 of 9 is pretty good) and they won it by 3 games last year(though we know the teams are closer than that, the 45-3 humiliation caused that seperation), NE deserves to be the favorite. That doesn't guarantee they win but they probably will, they are built for reg season success and we are built for postseason but unfortunately unless we can get by NE in the reg season and get some home playoff games I'm not sure we'll ever see the ultimate playoff success.
I had to look through the thread again, but I don't think the OP was talking about favorites "to win the division"... he was talking about SB favorites. Even less of a reason for this to be in the Jets Forum, but whatever...
Intelligent posters aren't saying that Plax is going to be good there is actually a lot of doubt. You know there are dumbasses that post stupid shit with all fan bases. I actually think Ocho will be better than he has been because he has a chance to win. With that said I think he will be invisible when Revis is defending him. I hope AH continues to be a joke.
Oh, as far as SB favorites. I do think we are better built to win in January but I think there are a ton of really good teams in the AFC and any of those teams could win it(NYJ, NE, Pitt, Bal).
Actually, I only declared Haynesworth useless. Which seems like a valid assessment considering he HAS BEEN useless for the past 2 years in Washington. Ocho is just not a major improvement over what you already had. All he will do is take reps away from other talented receivers. Perhaps he'll be injury insurance. But he doesn't constitute a marked improvement for the Pats passing game. Slight improvement? Maybe...even probably, but it's not enough to justify the overblown hype. It's certainly not worthy of the Aso-like hype that it's been getting. I just have a big issue with the arrogance inherent with saying the Pats and BB can revive the careers of lazy, overpaid, malcontent players like Fat Albert. Why? Is there some magic formula in the water in NE that makes worthless, over-the-hill D-tackles all of a sudden regain their once dominant form of several years ago? They've had a few lucky breaks with guys like Moss and Dillon, but neither was over-the-hill when they signed. They just came from bad teams. Washington was also a bad team, but partially BECAUSE of Haynesworth, not in spite of him.
BB gets noticed for it because he's done it a few times. I think a lot of it has to do with where the players come from. Corey Dillon came from the Bungals. A losing franchise. Randy Moss came from the Raiders. A losing franchise. Ochocinco came from the Bungals. A losing franchise. Haynesworth came from the Redskins. A losing franchise. Losing can make you not really want to do anything. At all. Moss and Haynesworth both walked out on their teams that were losing. Ochocinco created a circus around him and that one made the media forget that the Bengals can't win. New England is a winning franchise who consistently make the playoffs. Sometimes thats all a player wants. Ocho has stated that he only acted the way he did in cincy because he wasn't winning, and now that he's here he doesn't feel the need to anymore. Haynesworth was forced to play in a 3-4 defense as the NT that he hated, on a team that couldn't fight their way out of a paper bag. BB has been implementing a one-gapping 43 defense in training camp so far. Haynesworth gets a fresh start, on a winning team, playing in the defense that he loves and thrives in. Maybe thats all he needs. BB has the benefit of hindsight with all of these malcontents (I don't really consider ocho a malcontent, he's always worked hard and given everything, he's just a goof). He knows what did and didn't work for these players in their past and can tailor their surroundings to what they thrived in earlier in their career. I don't think he's some wizard that makes it work, he's just not dumb enough to put them back in the situation that gave them the "malcontent" label when they are gifted athletes.
