He's been very good for a few years now, his only playoff loss he put up 40+ pts. It's not like he got hot for a month like Eli in 2007. You note Brady is a system QB, please explain to me all the other great QBs in that system? Brady IS the system, w/o Brady there is no system, w/o Brady BB is a DC somewhere today. I apologize for not being wowed w/ fantasy stats and choosing the guys who make the biggest plays to help their teams win the biggest games. All you have to do is look at our playoff games against both QBs. Needing ONE 1st down to make sure we didn't have a chance to win in the WC game Peyton failed(again). needing TWO 1st downs to make sure we didn't have a chance in the title game ben kept plays alive and made 2 throws for 1st downs. That's all we really need to know. The ratings mean nothing, the yardage, etc... W/ the game on the line Ben came through and Peyton did not, as usual. You guys can have your fantasy #s, I'll take the winners. peyton proved something this year, w/ "only" top 10 talent instead of top 2-3 talent he had one of his worst years and if he wasn't in such a crappy division likely would not even have made the playoffs but he did make the playoffs and he played well down the stretch to help them get there averaging 28 PPG on O the last 4 games. Once in postseason he led his team to 16 pts and couldn't close out the game when he had the chance.
Did you know Eli has won as many Super Bowls as Aaron Rodgers and they both have the same number of 4,000 passing yards per season? I seriously doubt Eli would crack anyone's Top Five list. This forum has a "you're only as good as your last game/season" mentality.
Eli has been a full time starter for 6 1/2 years now, this was Rodgers 3rd season as a starter. In Eli's 2 4,000 yd seasons he has led his team to the playoffs and thew 39 INts in those 2 seasons. In Aaron's two 4,000 yd seasons he led GB to the playoffs once and threw 20 INTs. In postseason Aaron is 4-1, has led his O to 30 PPG and has thrown 13 TDs w/ just 3 INTs. Eli is 4-3, has led his O to 16 PPG and had thrown 8 TDs and 7 INTs. The two aren't close. This isn't an overreaction, the man is a great QB. this wasn't some fluke run.
Brady is the best quarterback in the NFL until someone actually gives him a good, hard hit. Then he folds like an accordian.
Yeah, because Ben's 69.9 rating and 5 INTs in 3 Superbowls are definitely the reason the Steelers won in '05 and '08. Please.
Like when the Giants battered him all day in that SB then w/ the game on the line he led his team 80 yds for the 4 pt lead late in the game?
Putting up 14 points the big game with supposedly, "the greatest offense in the history of the NFL" is still pathetic though. But I agree the NE Defense is more responsible for that loss than Brady.
He didn't have a good game, he was getting killed by that great Giants pass rush but w/ the game on the line he led them 80 yds late for the TD to put them up 4. That doesn't sound like a guy who folds when he gets hit. EVERY QB is affected by a great pass rush.
True but you think Brady wasn't fighting against us? It looked to me more like we confused him all day than him being scared to get hit.
Not against us but in other games sure. Granted they tailored their offense around a quick passing game so its out of his hands quick but u saw against the ravens in the playoffs, couple early hits and he makes bad decisions and isn't the same.
NE wasn't healthy, he wasn't totally healthy and they were overmatched against bal. He didn't have Welker and we know how Moss quits in tough times. That was a tough spot to beat Bal that day.
Football is the ultimate team game. Sometimes a QB will feel as if what's around him isn't good enough. He will start to press, and his success will be mostly predicated on how good the defense responds. Not that he is the only one who I feel reaps the benefits of a (mostly) outstanding 21 other guys around him, but does anyone remember how Ben came back to a 4-0 team? Some pretty good opponents too.
They were 3-1 not 4-0 beating one good team(Atlanta at home in week 1). Pitt doesn't get anywhere near the SB w/o Ben. Since 2008: Pittsburgh w/ Ben starting against Baltimore(inclduing playoffs): 6-0 Pitt w/o Ben against Bal: 0-2
No argument here. Just saying that they got hits on him early and he folded. I remember early in the game there was a free rusher coming and he just threw the ball into dead space and Bal picked it off (I think they ran it back for 6)
Brady is not #1. Going into 2011 Season: 1. Peyton Manning 2. Aaron Rodgers 3. Tom Brady 4. Drew Brees 5. Mark Sanchez
Here's exactly what I said: I'm not using system QB as a derogatory term here, which you always conveniently assume so that you don't have to address the real point. Every time we have this 'conversation', you have to rely on twisting words and 'unique' interpretations in order to have any semblance of an argument. New England utilizes a specific offensive system. All teams do, with varying degrees of expectation from the QB within that system. System QBs, in my definition, are QBs who fit within a designated system and rely on that system. Brady would be successful without that system, but not nearly as successful as he is.. No team has a better gameplan built around its QB. Period. System QB is a term that tends to be dismissive as it implies a QB who can't be successful elsewhere. That's clearly not the case with Brady, but it's foolish not to recognize that it's the perfect marriage between Belichick and Brady. Unlike you, I'm a realist when it comes to Brady. He's made Belichick better, and Belichick has made him better. Bledsoe couldn't have run that system. They never would have won the SB with him under center. By the same token, Brady wouldn't be as good as Manning anywhere else. Now, as I stated, that system relies on spacing and quickness in order to increase efficiency. It gives the QB an excellent chance at success, but only if you have a great QB under center who can actually utilize that space. Brady is that QB. He's phenomenal, and the results have been outstanding. That's why I originally posted this: As I've stated time and time again in the past, this is how history will remember Brady and Manning. No one will remember the system Brady was in, they'll remember the success he's had. He'll be remembered 20 years down the line as the better QB, even if Manning is still regarded as the human computer. I don't see how anyone can dispute that. I also said: Brady simply doesn't have to do as much as Manning and (we're starting to see) Rodgers in his offense. He's better at what he DOES do, but the expectations aren't the same. Manning literally runs the offense, and Rodgers has had to make things happen outside the pocket with a still-developing line in front of him. Brady relies on a perfectly executed system to be as successful as he is. He rarely breaks containment. He rarely runs with the ball. When you take away his system, he struggles greatly, even with all day in the pocket. He'd be a Top 5 QB with or without Belichick. With Belichick alone, he's #1. See, rather than actually discuss the realities of the situation, you attempt to belittle people by placing a weak argument on them. Nobody's discussing fantasy stats but you! It's why your arguments don't get the respect you think they deserve. You can't argue with what people are actually saying. It's also why I'll leave you to go through, twist my words, and have your fun. I don't feel a need to respond because I already know that I'm right. I'm sure you'll feel a need to respond because, well, that's what you do. I will say, however, that in a team sport, even if the QB is the most important position, your statement of "I'll just take the winners" and ignore all else shows that you really need to dig deeper. Have fun.
