The Turning Point: At the end of the 2002 season we had a great group of young players brought to us through the draft and free agency. Lamont Jordan, Chad Morton, Laverneus Coles, Santana Moss, Kareem McKenzie, Anthony Becht (great blocker, bad receiver), John Hall, John Abraham, and Chad Pennington. Every player mentioned above is in the prime of their career, and they are gone, except Mr. Pennington. Coles is back, but we had to trade Moss to get him. I?m glad Abraham is gone. McKenzie was over-hyped, Hall seems to be struggling. Becht was way too criticized by everyone. I know he was a first ?rounder, but give the guy a break, no one said he was gonna? be the next Tony Gonzalez. Moss was amazing this year, Lamont Jordan was one of the top players in yards from scrimmage, and he is on a horrible team. Chad Morton was a huge spark for the G-men this year, and Coles is the definition of what playing WR in the NFL is all about. I know that in the era of free agency you can?t hold on to every good quality player you draft. Look at how the Steelers have been drafting and developing WR?s just to see them walk to other teams in their primes. Look at the Colts having to allow a guy like Edge James to walk away. It?s part of the game. But, we drafted 2 starting NFL WR?s a starting RB and a dangerous return man in a 3 year span. Certain players needed to be given their walking papers, because of the cap. But, with a nucleus of Coles, Moss, Pennington and Jordan we had the makings of a champion. The off-season between 02? and 03? is when Bradway let Coles walk. That broke up the Penny to Coles chemistry, and the one two punch of Moss and Coles (not to mention Chrebet) and this was done to allow room for that absurd contract that was given to Pennington and that absurd extension that was given to Martin. That was the turning point, it was all over. We had the nucleus! Donnie Henderson, Paul Hackett, and Herm Edwards were a perfect staff as well. Now we start again =( I hope the two headed beast, know only as Tangini, sees the mistakes that were made. We had a good draft this year. We dumped a hell of a lot of dead weight. The cap is being repaired. My biggest concern is our offensive and defensive coordinators. Nether one was a #1 choice. Mangini had a hard time finding any interest. Expect 6 wins this year. ats_suck: :buffaloblows:
Good first post. It seems like you have been on this board a while without posting. A few points I have to refute: 1. You cannot say that we made a mistake in giving up Lamont Jordan and Santana Moss just because they had good years on other teams. Lamont really couldn't have been kept with the money he was demanding. Martin was coming off the rushing title and there was no way to justify cutting or trading him. Moss never was great for the Jets like he ended up being for the Redskins. Pennington was never able to get him the ball. Just because he broke out in Washington doesnt mean he would have broken out here. 2. The extension for Martin can't be justified as absurd because he won the rushing title 2 years later and he restructured his deal last offseason. 3. Coles walked because our front office couldn't afford to give up the kind of money that the Redskins were offering. At the time I think he was the highest paid WR in the league. 4. I wouldn't call any staff with Paul Hackett and Herm Edwards perfect.
I hear you. My whole idea here is that Moss Coles Jordan and Penny could have been an amazing nucleus. I think it was a mistake breaking these 4 players up. I can't wait for Penny to win comeback player of the year! I also have faith that Robertson and McCariens are gonna' have breakout years. Like I said, it's a rebuilding year, maybe 6 wins. But alot of good can come from this season. :beer:
I would have loved to keep moss, coles and jordan...i really like them all, but they all were victims of circumstance (another team offered them way above market value, and we couldn't affort to match without seriously handcuffing ourselves. btw, we didn't draft morton, i believe we signed him as a FA, but a great pickup nonetheless.
I've been pretty quiet lately, since the draft mostly. However, here is a great opportunity for me to enter the fray and refute some of what you said. Lamont Jordan did not have a particularly great year. He's probably better than Blaylock and Houston, but even now, I'll still take Martin over Jordan. It would have been nice to have both for the next couple of years, but I can live without him. The loss of Abe hurts. I don't care how people feel about him personally. I have argued about it over and over again about how people's perception of his desire is wrong, given that his absenses were all legit (though people who never understood will never come to believe the truth anyway.) If you think McKenzie was overhyped, you didn't watch the Jets in '05. Hall is struggling, but I would have loved to have kept him. If he were here all along, I think we would have beat Pittsburgh. Becht was criticized for good reason. Yes, he is a good blocker, but his hands are made of rubber. Screw him. Moss has got to be my favorite subject to refute. He was not great this year. Not too long ago I rehashed an argument I made about him. All of his "big plays" this year were the result of missed plays on the opposing defense. My favorite example is the Giants game this past year. On what many though was his best play of the game, he caught a ball behind the LOS, and two defenders right next to him fell down. He then ran free down open field the rest of the play. On all of his other plays, he simply burned one of the worst CBs in the league. That's not skill, that's just speed. Here, with Penny (and I am a Penny fan) his speed is absolutely useless. Given that he is too scared to make plays happen, he is garbage here. The Coles mess was what it was. It may not have been a fantastic move, but he did want a lot of money. The only reason it looks bad in 20/20 hindsight is because we threw so much at guys like DRob, Martin, Penny et al. (Not that they did or didn't deserve the money, I'm not arguing that point, but if you give it to them, you give it to the guy who really showed you something with the time he had.) On the subject of Coles, going back to Moss, remember the first year Coles had in Washington? Expect Moss to have a significantly downgraded year this season now that there is film of him for the NFCE to view. All in all, I am not disappointed with the direction we are headed. Herm is gone, Bradway is back to doing what he does right, Hackett is meeting Vinny for chips on Sundays. It's wait and see now, but of that list, besides getting Coles back, the only guy I would still like to have is McKenzie. Maybe Abe, but he was too expensive. If Penny can recover, then I am all in his corner, I just don't have the faith in his shoulder anymore. Everyone else is good riddance.
Great Post...I agree with everything you said especially the Moss thing. Everyone on these boards always say that it was a horrible trade because Moss put up huge numbers-but if Moss was on our team last year, his numbers probably would have been worse than the ones Coles put up for us. We had 5 different QBs last season-Marvin Harrison wouldnt put up numbers in our offense. Moss' "breakout" year was a result of stupid defense, and not being a Jet. If Coles was a Skin last year he probably would have put up huge numbers too. I also agree with you on Abe-I think hes one of the most talented DEs in the league no matter how big of a disturbance he was. Good post.
Chad should start...to retire. The problems with the offense center on the worthlessness of Chad Pennington. 1) He only plays about half the games…and you want to talk about developing chemistry? 2) Of the half of the games he plays – he is “coming off an injury”. 3) Each year he expects to be “Ready for week one” 4) He cant throw the ball down field so any deep threat receiver is either a waste of a pick or a trade 5) Since he cant throw the ball – all other teams know they can just plug the box and take away the running game 6) His decent statistics are a farce bolstered buy 4 yard dumps to his check down; a 4 yard completion on a 3rd and 9 is worthless; we may as well run a draw. until we can develop Clemens or someone else (who knows about Ramsey) consider us a team rebuilding.
Chad brings a lot to the table. He makes good decisions. He has great character and is a real leader. He's not afraid to step up in a big game. It is not his fault he gets injured, it's just the way the cards were dealt. In 2002 Chad had an amazing year. He had something to prove. Then, all of us Jets fans started to worship him. Finally this year he has something to prove again. Expect good things. Ainkman and Montana didn't have Culpepper-like arms either. They won by being leaders not javelin throwers.
I agree we would have beat Pittsburgh with Hall. I disagree that our problems in 2005 had anything to do with the loss of McKenzie.
In 04 Pennington can't really throw the ball and we have no real passing threat to keep the Defense backed off. Martin at the age of 31 has the single best year of his career running primarily off tackle and to the right side. The loss of McKenzie and Becht, coupled with Mawae getting old overnight had everything to do with our problems in 05.
Nice going on starting a good thread. About Aikman and Montana -- they did not have to deal with today's pressure defenses. If they don't have to worry much about your passing game going vertical, they can put eight in the box to stop your run. If they can stop your run, your play-action is ineffective. The trend now in the NFL is to attack the entire field. The only hint so far from Schottenheimer about his plans is that the Jets offense "won't dink and dunk."
John Hall could have kicked us into the AFC Championship game in 04. The loss of McKenzie and Becht was a big blow to our O-line. Becht might not have been able to catch but Martin suffered without him.
In 02 Vinny basically played him self off of the team and Chad had absolutely nothing to lose. The Jets were able to utilize his great play faking ability to open up short lanes to pass through. To his credit he was accurate, daring, loose and played great. After having a very mediocre 03 come back year from his pre season injury he basically told the team to sign him before the 04 season or he wouldn't negotiate until after the season when he would essentially be a free agent. The Jets gave him the deal before the 04 season and while Chad was good prior to his shoulder injury he was not close to the loose on his game player he was in 02. Aikman had a much bigger arm than Chad and Montana had a slightly better arm than Chad, much better pocket presence than Chad, a much quicker release than Chad and much better timing with his receivers than Chad. You can?t compare Chad as a QB to Aikman or Montana, he isn?t close to being in either players class. Chad had something to prove last year and he proved he can't stay on the field.
2.I totally disagree with you on the Martin deal. Boobway is probably the only gm on the planet who would give a 29 year old HB an EIGHT YEAR deal. Good God, it doesn't even expire until the END of 2009 (it was recently restructured to end the same year). The same year he gave Marvin Jones a 5 year deal (he limped thru 2), and Chrebet a 7 year deal (he limped thru 4 of the 7). You just don't give guys pushing/over 30 the 5-8 year deals--Boobway didn't get that. Tangini does-they recently signed veteran Trey Teague. How long? 2 years. The shelf life of an NFL player is not that long. Giving Martin that ABSURD deal at his age cost us Jordan who I'd rather have NOW than Martin, and who I prefedered in 2002. Boobway gave Martin that 8 year deal after Jordan AVERAGED 8 yards per carry as a rookie--we should have hitched our wagon to Coles and Jordan in 2002, not greybeards Martin and Chrebet--Good teams put sentiment aside--not Boobway and Herm. 4. Coles "walked" because Boobway only tendered him with a 1 as compensation. Any other gm would have tendered him as a 1 and a 3. Coles made it clear in 2002 he wanted a Chrebet deal (7 years 16M), but Boobway gave the money to Chrebet and it burned him.
