http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft06/columns/story?columnist=pasquarelli_len&id=2415310 Seventeen of the 32 starting centers in the NFL last season were players who entered the league as fourth-round picks or lower. There were four times as many starting centers who entered the NFL as undrafted free agents (eight) than as first-round choices (two). And one of those two first-rounders, Jeff Hartings of Pittsburgh, actually was drafted by the Detroit Lions as a guard. So, the longtime practice of rating centers somewhere between slugs and afterthoughts in the personnel pecking order pretty much continues, right? Maybe not. Although it's true that only 13 centers have been chosen as first-rounders since 1970, two of those, Jeff Faine of Cleveland (2003) and Seattle's Chris Spencer (2005), have come in the last three lotteries. Since the 2000 draft, 14 centers have been chosen as first-day picks. That average, 2.3 first-day centers in the last six drafts, could increase this year with the presence of highly regarded snappers like Nick Mangold (Ohio State), Chris Chester (Oklahoma), Greg Eslinger (Minnesota) and Jason Spitz (Louisville) in the pool. That league scouts suddenly are viewing those first-day prospects as centers of attention is reflective of an increasing sense that, with the changes on the defensive side, franchises can no longer give short shrift to the interior of their offensive line. Aaron Josefczyk/Icon SMI Nick Mangold figures to be the first center off the board. "More teams are playing 3-4 fronts, and so you've got a defender lined up right over the center, and that matchup is always going to be critical," said Mangold, universally ranked as the top center in the 2006 draft pool and a player with a chance to be chosen in the late part of the first round. "Even in four-man fronts, you've got a tackle in that three-technique position that you have to worry about. Plus, from what I keep hearing, [defensive] tackle play has really improved in general, and you're seeing a lot more athletic guys at tackle now. So, offenses sort of have to [counter] that, I guess." Indeed, as more teams build defenses from the inside out, with tackles as the cornerstones, centers are no longer on the outside looking in. Teams are increasingly seeking not just centers who can serve as anchors inside but blockers with more athleticism. The preponderance of zone-blocking schemes around the league has fueled the urgency to locate such players. Chester is an intriguing prospect in that regard. A player who began his college career as a tight end, the Oklahoma star moved to center as a junior, excelled there except for some injuries, and is one of the real risers on draft boards. Chester can get out in front on screen passes, pulls well on sweeps, and will get downfield and block at the second level. "You get a guy as mobile as him," one NFC offensive line coach agreed, "and you can do a lot of things. A player like him gives you some important options on offense." In fact, the importance of having a strong interior offensive line extends beyond just the center position, and includes guards, as well. Consider this: Two of the most crucial moves of the free agency period were the relocations of center LeCharles Bentley (from New Orleans to Cleveland) and guard Steve Hutchinson (Seattle to Minnesota). Even discounting the landmark contracts each veteran blocker received, and those blockbuster deals are all but impossible to ignore, the moves were significant because of the players involved and the positions they play. Clearly, the profile of interior offensive linemen has been enhanced, as have their paychecks. The trend is apt to be reflected in the draft, too. Headlined by in-line mashers such as Davin Joseph of Oklahoma, Max Jean-Gilles of Georgia, Southern California's Taitusi Lutui and Pittsburgh's Charles Spencer, the guard contingent in this draft is one of the strongest in years. Joseph is a superb player, a guy who actually moved to left tackle last year to fill a need but is a prototype guard who might squeeze into the first round. As with centers, there aren't many guards taken in the opening stanza of any draft, but that is a trend slowly changing, as well. Four of the last five drafts have featured a guard in the first round, and there have been 24 guards chosen in the first three rounds of the past six drafts. It will never be a position nearly as important as tackle, but the guard spot has gained in prominence. "If you're going to run the football against the monster tackles everyone seems to have now," said Steelers offensive line coach Russ Grimm, a former standout guard, "you better have good [guards]. It's not just a 'plug in' position anymore, where you're kind of taking leftovers, guys who don't fit anywhere else, and just hoping to stick them into the lineup and develop them." This year's guard contingent is very deep, and teams will still find solid blockers -- players like Rob Sims (Ohio State), Fred Matua (Southern California), Jahri Evans (Bloomsburg State) and Mark Setterstrom (Minnesota) -- in the third round and beyond. What is notable is that guard is no longer viewed as strictly a second-day position, a spot where teams load up after the third round. One veteran scout noted that, in the last few years, he has discerned a tendency to "nudge" guards up a round, to take them a full stanza earlier than most clubs would have in the past. That trend is pushing more guards and centers into the first three rounds. Since 1994, when the NFL adopted the seven-round draft, 30 of the 90 centers selected and 60 of the 174 guards taken went off the board on the first day, a much higher quantity than in the past.
Center is pivotal to the success of an offensive line. Mawae instantly made our line better when he came over from Seattle. Mangold can do the same for our line now.
OLB is more important, it is one of the keys to a 3-4 defense. Look at Dallas and SD last year- each went with an OLB with their first pick, in their transitiom year to the 3-4. Look for Mangini to do the same. Mangold would be nice, but you can finds starting caliber OL spread throughout the draft
heh, id love it at 29 and 35 we got both carpenter and lawson...we'd be set at LB for the most part for a long time
Not saying we won't take a OLB in the first 3 rounds .... but we already have Barton, Hobson, Kassel, Chatham all able to play OLB. At Center we have Trey Teague .... Mangold would make the bigger impact sooner IMO. OL is my biggest concern of the draft ... then DT, RB, QB, LB, WR in that order. Again this is just one mans opinion ... one of which I highly doubt the FO is interested in ... sigh (the injustice).
But they cant play OLB...theyre ILBs. OLBs have are generally bigger and specialize in blitzing, as opposed to the ILBs, who specialize in run stuffing. As of now Thomas and Chatham are our OLBs...
Barton is plenty big and fast (6'2" 245) enough to play OLB in the 4/3 ... Hobson is big enough (6' 252).. just have to wonder about his speed. Kassel (6'3" 242) while more suited to the middle ... has played OLB and could be used in a pinch. Chatham (6'4" 250) has size ... but speed is more along the lines of Hobson. Yes lets draft the much bigger OLBs in the draft shall we .... A.J. Hawk - 6'1" 243 Greenway - 6'2" 243 Carpenter - 6'2" 254 (a bit more beef .. but slower) Lawson - 6'5" 240 (DE/LB love this kid to be honest .. but not ahead of Mangold) .
OLB in a 43 and a 34 is different. In a 43 the scheme relies heavily on pressure from the line. In a 34 the scheme relies heavily on pressure from the outside backers. Generally the OLBs are bigger (a godd avg is about 260+), but they cab be smaller IF they utilize superior blitz technique. So far only Chatham and Thomas fit this criteria...I do not feel comfortable with Chatham heading into camp at what is arguably the most imp position on defense
#1 We will not be running the 34 exlusively ... #2 Chatham isn't the starter anywhere. Do you have some inside information? #3 Pressure in the 34 can be brought from anywhere ... OLB, ILB, S #4 your OLBs have to be able to cover TE's and Backs ... they do not simply rush the passer every play. #5 I realize your stating your opinion on the matter and I respect that ... but what bigger LBs are you looking to draft? Carpenter has the size you seek .. but does he have that elite ability to rush the passer that you seek? Per the ESPN Draft Guide (take it however you want .. all draft guides are as wrong as they are right) Carpenter: Weakness - Lacks ideal upper-lower body strength so he must improve technique. Plays to high and loses leverage. Allows blockers into his body and plays with a narrow base. Needs to improve his hand usage and ability to to disengage from blocks. Also, he is not an explosive tackler. He is graded out late first early second round ... I can't find another OLB listed at or over 250lbs. Lawson might be athletic enough to overcome his size issue (per your weight requirements) ... definitely should be able to get pressure .. but can he hold up against the run? Remember size is important ... but its not everything. Instincts .. heart .. and smarts are just as important in my mind. Again just enjoying the conversation here .. please don't take offense to me questioning you.
No, of course I wouldnt take offense. Carpenter or Lawson would indeed be ideal fits. Both have experience in coverage and both can rush the passer. And Carpenter certainly has the ability to rush the passer...he had 8 sacks last year, I believe. Carpenter's probably better against the run and a more physical player, but Lawsons by far the more athletic of the two...I guess it depends on what youre looking for Pressure can indeed be brought from anywhere in a 34, but usually one of the two OLBs is always rushing. ILBs and safeties can also rush, but they are secondary blitzers. I agree, size isnt everything. Instinsts also matter (technique). Barton, Vilma, Hobson, and Kassell are nice players, but they simply are not blitzers. They are run stuffers. They lack both the size and technique to play OLB. By default, Chatham would start at OLB...he can fare well against the run and is a decent blitzer...it is his coverage that could use some work. But by bringing in a Carpenter, or a Lawson, we tremendously upgrade that position in every aspect. Hey if Mangold is around at 35, by all means, take him, but I am wary of any OLBs slipping that far. Mangold, IMO, has a better chance. And if hes gone, than we could always go with a Max Jean-Gilles, or a David Joseph, at guard
Again ... just because Barton and Hobson were not used as pass rushers alot under Edwards does not mean they lack the ability. I still believe Barton starts at OLB with Hobson and Chatham fighting for the other spot. Thomas could be used in obvious pass situations (really rooting for him to work out at 34 OLB, but I have a hard time believing he will be solid enough in pass coverage to be a starter this year). Also .. if Mangold is on the board at 29 I feel you have to take em. The trenches is where games are won and lost. Strenght on Oline and Dline are a must. **Oh and wasn't Mo Lewis a third rounder? He was a pretty damn good OLB both in the 43 and 34.
hobson is crap, if he wasnt cheap, he'd have been purged when tangini took over, trust me, stop overrating him the thomas experiment at OLB/rush LB in the 3-4 may not work out at all, chatham isn't outstanding, vilma is much better at just running around the field making plays rather than blitzing, and barton isn't great at rushing the passer either if carpenter or lawson is there at 29, it's a toss-up (unless someone even better falls)..we'd probably take carpenter (who can play in any system, and probably would be a top 20 lock if he didn't get injured this past season, plus it doesnt help he was overshadowed by hawk) id still actually like both of them, because if vilma works well still in the 3-4, having lawson and carpenter, would basically set us at LB for quite awhile, and we wouldn't have to worry about that position (plus lawson could line up in pass situations even if the set was a 4-3)..both are versatile enough (especially carpenter) and are impact players mangolds nice, but you can grab a center who will be fine later on in the draft or through FA, he's not a massive need anymore, and honestly he never carried a first round grade till the offseason, which should tell you something (lawson was a fringe before, and carpenter did carry one), and considering he's a center i still don't many teams jumping to take him (there's only a few right at the end of the round that are a possibility) there are enough fairly decent centers later on in the draft
Again, you're more likely to get a good center in the later rounds than you are a good pass rusher that can cover, like a Lawson or Carpenter Also, whereas Teague is borderline starting caliber, Chatham really isnt. Teague is an average center...Chatham is far less than average.
For Mangold to be the pick at 29 the Jets front office must have him rated as an all pro top of the line player. If not then you can always find a center mid rounds. Only 2 centers have been taken in the first round of the last 10 years. Jeff Hartings who wasn't a center most of his career and Spencer on the Seahaws who hasn't really played. Bottom line is that you don't take a center that early unless he's got Dermonti Dawson ability.
I like Mangold, but with the needs at OT and OLB I would not take him over Carpenter/Lawson or Marcus McNeil (assuming D'Brick isn't pick #4).
Yes; I'd rather have McNeill at 29, Lawson at 35, and then Eslinger at 71. He I think is a pretty underrated center. Katnik and Teague IMO are also underrated and Katnik is supposed to be the real deal. I say we give this guy a chance before we look at C in the draft. But I wouldn't hate Eslinger.
Doubt Lawson makes it even to our 29...Id go Carpenter at 29, Gilles at 35, and Whitworth at 71, if it were up to me. Than draft Pat Ross at center in the 4th/5th round
I want Mangold at 29. I'll be rooting, starting at around 20, each pick for his name not to be called.
