this may have already been said, but maybe the reason this data is leading you to that conclusion is because ... your data is all wrong. Besides the comments already stated about Bellichek at cleveland, I have to ask about this one: Say wha??? You DO remember the whole "Tampa Bay giving two 1st and two 2nd draft picks to Oakland to get Gruden as head coach" only the year before in 2002... right? With your list so full of errors it's hard to comment on your point.
A pretty good deal, as it turned out. The Patriots giving draft picks to us for Belichick - same thing. To get a great coach, giving up draft picks and a pile of cash is really the best and easiest money a team owner can spend.
unless his claim is that there is some mystical force at work that is preventing the jets from ever hiring a coordinator that will turn out to be a great coach, and it isn't merely simply a coincidence born from choosing simply the wrong coordinators to hire, his point is laughable. many franchises go through bad years of many bad hires, and then finally get it right. look at the Cardinals as a prime example. their last head coach was experienced and successful, and it floundered. but they brought in a coordinator, as they have done in the past to essentially zero success, and voila, Super Bowl. their past poor coaching hires in no way effected their ability to win with this coach. that is why this entire argument is ridiculous. these are independent events. no coaching decision or hires in the Jets past have any effect on whether the coach they are hiring now can or cannot get the job done. the fact that he is attempting to claim otherwise is dumbfounding and illogical.
Interesting take. In any successful organization, there is a staff of personel execs, pro and college scouts. They are nameless/faceless presonel who watch other teams in season or travel to the combine/Senior Bowl. These people usually do not change with coaching regimes but stay on as members of executive office staff. All we see or hear is Tannenbaum and (now) Ryan and Schottenheimer, but who are the nameless faceless people in the the NYJs organization- who are these important people?. Its off topic but no less important.
You guys are missing the whole point by arguing about the validity if Ryan’s resume; the point is simple. We have tried this 10 times in the last 40 years (rookie head coach) and it has not worked once. The real question is can Ryan get anything done in the three year window allotted to you by any NY sports franchise? How long would Cowher have lasted with the NYJ’s?
I'll say this about Rexy, and please understand that I'm presently in the "supporter" pool - if we have no record of success to go on, the next best thing is pedigree. Buddy did a decent job with the Eagles. Plus, he was GREAT entertainment, and that's been missing since Herm left. Of course, Buddy also spit the bit in Arizona, but I can dismiss that because the Cardinals are perennial los. . . umm. . . well. . . ne'er mind.
As of now, all we can really say about Ryan is that he's the most qualified HC we've hired since Parcells.
I don't think he is talking about a "mystical force" - I think he means that the franchise's method of operation is lousy and has been so for some time, yet they do the same thing over and over. Its like the old cliche - if you do the same thing again and again and expect a different result, that is a sign of insanity. As another poster put it - we've tried this 10 times, and it hasn't worked yet. It's either the people they pick or the operation (or both). How many more failures before they try another way?
Earlier in thread, someone mentioned this is a "which came first the chicken or the egg". They're right to an extent, but it's more like a roulet bet. Some of the names mentioned above were coaches mentored in great organizations. But this is not always the case: Mangini for one, Mike Mularkey, Marvin Lewis. There are probably 10 fails for every success. The jets are not alone on that score- many organizations have long spells of missing it. But you have a better chance if you bring them in from successful organizations- BB from the parcells, Cowher from a dominant KC defensive scheme, Holmgren from Walsh, Ditka from Landry, Reid from Holmgren. Its the pedigree before they win the first SB- after that we know they never win another. So if the Jets have done this 10 times in the 40 years, and I estimate the failure rate is 10:1. For some reason, I believe this time the Jets got it right.
How much would you attribute to lebeau (suprisingly, another failed HC via DC route experiment-lending credence to the phrase: most can't a few can. If anyone would have succeeded- you knew it would be Dick Lebeau) who brought the Steelers back from midpack defense to #1 in 2004 upon his return to the Steelers. From that point, Cowher had it on auto pilot- although he was an excellent draft day guy.
There are a lot of different pieces that go into the mix on a championship team. The pieces that are usually indispensable are the QB and the HC. Sometimes a defensive unit is just so strong that it wins by itself, as in the Ravens in 2000, but mostly it's the HC putting together all the pieces. I think LeBeau is a great DC and a part of the puzzle, in the same way that Belichik was a great DC for Parcells.
I think we agree. Good word for it- "puzzle". I have always felt that "organizations" win championships. Earlier in thread I posted that even the nameless faces known as personnel execs/scouts are important. Which begs the question: who are these guys in the Jets organization? I mean I claimed that Cowher was a great draft day talent assessor, (Rothleisberger, Porter, Buress, Faneca, Heath Miller, Pope, Polamalu,Randal El- the list goes on),but who were the boots-on-the-ground intelligence behind the decisions? Ravens of 2000- yes we remember the defense, but it was Billick who benched ineffective Banks in favor of the consistent game-manager Dilfer and in week 4 went with R Jamal Lewis over Allen (injury). A good example of the HC putting the pieces on the field. The future Jets OC better be of similar "HC" quality because idk what Ryan's expertise is in this area. If that is Schottenheimer- great. If he is the OC from wks 6-11, YES! I wonder. I am glad for RR hire- I think the NYJs got it right- but obviously I would like a Billick-type influence somewhere in the operation.
I think it's fair to wonder still about a guy like Dick Lebeau. True, he failed miserably in Cincinnati, and I'm not saying that he would be a good head coach, but that seems to be just an impossible situation. It's one of those places where the owner plays general manager, and I don't think think it's any coincidence that those teams (Dallas, Oakland, Cincy) have player turmoil almost every year. When Dallas had Parcells putting his thing down, we saw how much better that team became. Maybe in a different setting, Dick Lebeau could have been a real good coach. Unfortunately, we'll never know.
Correct. In 1994 Richie K. lost his last 7 games as the coach of the Eagles, and then proceeded to build on that streak as the HC of the NY Jets. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/phi/1994.htm
LeBeau was always a Paul Brown guy, and, I believed, felt like he owed something to the organization (sons of P Brown) for his run there in the 80's. Good insight on the owner meddling issue and its effects. Maybe why Green Bay is a better than good-to-great FB Operation, as there is NO OWNER! but rather thousands of Owners. I have watched the Jets intently this year for obvious reasons and I know I will continue beyond Favre. Actually I was a Jets fan in the early 70's because as a juvenile Packer fan who lived in Minnesota, you did not want to wear your gear to school. So I wore my Maynard jersey. To a 12 yr old kid the Jets were HUGE. Sentimental BS aside, I wonder if: (a) the owner is meddling too much here- you may have seen a pattern more than I as you have witnessed this Owner from 1999; and (b) Tannenbaum is a numbers cruncher and little more at the expense of a true talent organizational guy. I believe in a "football operations" guy with a great personnel staff (Scouts), or atleast the GM having this type of skill set. Carmen Policy, Ozzie Newsome, Parcells (who learned from George Young) or Ron Wolfe are good examples of this talent. Cap crunchers, although necessary (maybe not after 09 or the new CBA), sometimes fall short in this category. Abyzmul made me laugh with his characterization that the NYJs are ran by lawyers and accountants. If this is/has been true- it does not bode well for long-term success on the field no matter who the HC/OC/DC is. The pattern of 3 years and out could continue. Personally, I think Billick (with a synergy between he and Ryan along with exposure to Newsome) would fit this role- that's Woody's call. I applaud Woody's involvement and decisions to this point, but think he should go further in setting up the organization that will thrive for 10 - 15 seasons. Give Tannenbaum a corner office and call him "czar", or whatever, I don't care, just hire a football GM.
