Maybe the Jets are just not that good of a team...

I'm most amazed at the sudden complacency of this team. I bought in to the possibility that there was a big mental turn-around taking hold, similar to what happened in '98. I have always felt that so much of this game relies on desire and emotion. Sure, the coach can influence and foster those feelings somewhat, but the primary responsibility is on the team leaders. As far as performance, it seems to me that the defense has fallen off the map. If we could stop anybody the extra opportunities would probably translate into more points. This offense is at its best when given an opportunity to get into a groove/ tempo. That can't happen when they're on the sidelines.

Bottom line, if we can get that fire back we might have a chance to redeem ourselves...If not, then it's the same old Jets indeed.

 

If the Jets are rebuilding as you suggest DBJ, why bring in a 1 year QB and give up a good pick for him? Clearly this is not a dominating team and at the moment not playing very well but if this is a rebuilding team, Management made a very bad calculation going for broke so to speak. We also could have traded down on our No. 6 pick after the Raiders took the guy we wanted and picked up Keller and another 1st round pick and kept the pick we gave up to move up to get Keller.

While it appears you're right, if you are than management deserves a little more of a shove out the door at the end of the season. This team needs to do more than make the playoffs and that is now a big question mark.

 

You forgot starting Qb, which has been fixed as well. So, the Jets are 8-5 instead of 4-12, but you're right, it's still a work in progress.

 

I agree, up to a point, that the Jets seem listless at times, and while this is on the players, I think it is also on the CS. I also think their apparent listlessness is only one factor, as right now a thin secondary and a lack of LB's capable of covering in pass D are glaringly apparent weaknesses on this D.

 

Our defense has been playing like chicken s**t. Even the best coaches in the world can't make chicken soup out of chicken s**t.

We have a non-existent pass-rush and are very prone to linebacker area passing which sustains drives. If we can't get the offense off the field we give the opposition too many chances. This, in turn, keeps our offense off the field and takes them out of their rhythym.

This is, in a large way, why we have dropped the last 2 games.

With our defense playing as it is, we will not be a playoff team or if we do eke into it, we will not go far.

 

Any team that spends the way we did this offseason has convinced themselves they have a serious shot at the Super Bowl, especially with the schedule we had. They convinced themselves that the schedule was sufficiently weak enough to give a number of new starters learning curves in their new roles and still remain competitive enough to challenge of the division title or at least a playoff berth.

The first part of your post I agree with, the business decision was sound... but it's so much more than a simple merchandising deal, and that simplistic view diminishes what this team has accomplished since the offseason. I am disappointed about the results of some games, and ecstatic about the results of others, and it could go either way from this point on.

That's why I find the idea of people writing the season off for an coaching overhaul to be ludicrous.

 

I agree with this. I think that the attitude that signing Favre was for nothing other than merchandising and attention is overly cynical - the team was 8-3 two weeks ago, so obviously things were working on the field as well.

I think the Giants winning the Super Bowl was the key to the offseason this year, and not only for the obvious reason (that the other local team was once again more successful). The Giants showed that a team that nobody thought was all that good could go on a roll and win it all if they got good QB play. After all of the other changes that were made to the Jets, I think Tannenbaum thought that they could be just as good as last year's Giants with a top-flight QB.

It's fine to say now (with the benefit of hindsight) that the end of the season for the Giants was actually just a preview of how good they really were, but that's not what people were saying during the off-season - many people even had them missing the playoffs this year. It's also fine to say now that maybe Pennington could have done as good a job as Favre this year, but the fact is that Pennington is having his best year since 2002, and nobody saw that coming either (for those who doubt that this is his best year since 2002, consider that his TD/INT ratio, INT percentage, yards/attempt, and passer rating are his highest since 2002, and his yards/catch and yards/game are the best of his career; of course, he has benefited so far from the fact that he hasn't played in a single cold-weather game yet).

I think the Jets rolled the dice with Favre because they thought that in today's NFL they could ride him far in the playoffs even though they were (still) not a great team. Up until a couple of weeks ago that seemed to be a pretty good strategy, and it could still work out, but I think that people who claim that everything is the coaching staff's fault because the Jets have "so much talent" are seriously overestimating that talent.

 

Is it me or do the Jets look gassed??? Certainly appears like this team is running on empty...

 

I think they wanted to get rid of Chad. Not because he isn't good but because he can't stay on the field. I think they figured they were going to get one or two more years out of Chad or Favre so why not try and get the upgrade. I think they figured Favre gave them a better chance to win a superbowl but I don't think they expected this year to make a run deep into the playoffs. If they didn't get someone like Favre they would have been trashed for cutting Chad.

This team is probably an 8-8 or 9-7 team. They had a joke schedule and no injuries. They still need another safety, a wr with some speed and some changes to the linebackers

 

I am not sure I would say they got Favre only to obtain cover for getting rid of Chad, but it was certainly a factor. Unfortunately the divided nature of the Jet fanbase was and to some real extent remains a reality. The CS and FO went into the off season not willing to announce that they were giving the ball to Clemens, while not wanting to give it back to Chad. This set up a Qb contest in camp. Meanwhile the existence of too many other holes meant they could not afford to use a high pick on a Qb, having the hope that Clemens would win the job on the merits.

Instead the camp showdown was inconclusive. This left the team in a bind, as they faced another season with Chad at the helm, and that looked like something other than a step forward. But the camp results meant if they gave it to Clemens, they risked the antipathy of the Chad Fans, and if Chad were still on the team, the Chad Fans would have gone to every game, bombared every call in show, every message board, and would not have given up until they gave the ball to Chad.

The only way out was to bring in another Qb, a vet, who would provide a rationale for getting rid of Chad - at that point it was clear that the options of playing either Chad or Clemens did not add up.

Despite this careful approach, there are still an unfortunately large number of Chad Fans ready to bewail Favre's presence on the team. But at least they do not turn Jet home games into Pennington Pep Rallies.

 

I think it is inaccurate to think that the only reason for bringing in Favre was to sell merchandise and PSLs. The FO said that when there is a player of Favre's calibre available, you go for him. I believe this is true.

However, I think it's naive to say that this move was never about merchandise, PSL sales, as well as placating the fanbase. I know Jets fans (being close friends and family with several of them) and I know the fan base wants to win a SB (duh) and topple the Patriots. The Giants did both last year in an epic fashion. I think it's not unreasonable to say that Jets ownership was concerned about losing fans and sales going down and things of that nature.

I think you make an interesting point in suggessting that the Giants having the improbable run that they did influenced the thinking of the Jets FO. If this is the case, however, you need to keep in mind that the Giants won that game due to an incredibly talented dline playing absolutely out of their skulls and giving Brady few chances to get in a rhythm. The Giants also had a punishing running game. Eli was considered a QB that got hot, not an elite QB in those playoffs (note that this practice continues in Philadelphia as we speak).

In light of this, the Jets trade for Jenkins, the signing of Pace, and the drafting of Gholston appear to be an attempt to put together a fierce pass-rush of their own. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to have worked out on all fronts.

I think the signing of Favre was a mixture of several things; satisfying the fans, raising ticket sales, an attempt at a deep playoff run, and an exercise in opportunism/due dilligence.

 

Agreed & I also suggest another T/stone after Sundays game when we are again a non SB contending team

 

It's very hard, as a fan sitting on my couch every week, to figure out how much of the Jets awful play the last few weeks is the coaching and how much is the talent level of the players. I, like everyone else, have been very annoyed at the terrible pass defense but I haven't blamed Mangini for it. Our secondary, with the exception of Revis, is garbage. But then I look at the offense and the fact that we have a very solid o-line, a power RB, a game-changing slippery RB, a WR that you can line up behind center for trick plays, and a big pass-catching TE, and I wonder why they can't get it going. Maybe it's that the WRs just aren't that good or that the line is shitty at picking up the blitz. But it seems more like play-calling to me. Same with the blitz - we don't really have good pass rushers right now but even bad pass rushers have to get to the QB sometimes if you call smart blitzes.

It's obviously a combination of the two. The point is that, in 2006, when Mangini first came to town, the team was clearly playing above their talent level by using lots of motion and trickery and heart and whatever else to win games. That was a great year and the fans loved it and were ready for Mangini to run this team into eternity. Now look at us. We are playing below our talent level. That's the problem. Maybe we aren't playing that far below our talent level - maybe just a little - or it could be a lot. It's hard to tell. But the fact remains that the team is worse in real life than it is on paper.

 

1. Well, you can compete while rebuilding. Shit, we won 9 games this year and the rosters more likely to improve than not improve for next year. We won 10 games in '06 and we were clearly rebuilding then.

2. Management didn't make a poor calculation. They wanted a guy QB'ing who gave us a shot at winning this year, and they got the best QB available. Only in hindsight was this a poor calculation.

3. Who would have taken the #6 pick off our hands? I don't even think we wanted the 6 pick that badly.

4. So we...NEED to win the Super Bowl for Mangini to keep the job? That seems excessive. Should the Texans fire Kubiak if they don't win the Super Bowl? His rebuilding projects got to be going pretty shit, they haven't won a Super Bowl yet. Should the Steelers fire Tomlin if they won't win the Super Bowl? I mean they have a dominant D and a good enough O to do it. He's had enough time and talent to not fuck that up. I mean they've had the same problems for at least a couple years now (can't protect Ben).

Maybe I am too much of an idealist. It's not like if the Jets hired a new guy I'd stop rooting for them. I just think it's fucked up to do that...but hey it's a fucked up, spoiled world so who am I to disrupt that flow?

 

If you think our team has competed the last few weeks you're not watching the same games I'm watching.

I don't ever expect to win a SB. I don't expect the team to lie down like dogs with superior talent doing the same things over and over again.

 

Crazier things have happened when we play within the division. Here is to a great game on Sunday.:beer:

 

Why do you want a great game?

I don't care if Pats-Bills and Jets-Fish are the 2 stinkiest games in history aslong as the Pats and Jets win.

 

This year, Mangini was given several gifts:
1. A schedule based on a 4-12 season
2. No Brady
3. We played the AFC and NFC west; they are the two weakest divisions in football.

I do understand that point 1 and 3 are related - but I wanted to make sure people understood how badly this team has blown it this year.

Of course, DbJ could be right. We aren't that good and hence we didn't blow anything. Maybe then we exceeded expectations.

FWIW, I thought this team would win 6-8 games before Favre entered the picture.