Wow, it's amazing. No matter how many times you show the point to some people, they refuse to see it for what it is. Let's look at TO again. (I don't care if you want to say "Oh great, another TO comment, come up with something else." He is the perfect person to make the point out of.) TO is a locker room cancer. He is also quite arguably the single-best WR in the game of football. Hell, if he didn't have that attitude of his, he could have been the best EVER. But no one wants to deal with him, except Jerry Jones. Do you not find it curious that Parcells was nowhere to be found when TO's intro press conference came around? Is it not interesting that there were rumors flying that BP was quitting the 'Boys a few days after the TO signing? Again, it's about the total package. Hotcoles, the Pats won Super Bowls with backups in key positions. That's either amazing depth, or a team-first attitude that has guys playing above themselves. The Pats for years have been more than the sum of their parts. The Pats have schemes where LBs run the ball and catch TDs. They throw WRs in at CB. Could you ever realistically see TO, or Chad Johnson playing CB? I'll put it like this. I'm a Yankee fan. I have been since I was old enough to walk. The team the Yankees have right now, and even the past couple of years is dominating, talent-wise. They can't win the big one though. All the talent in the world doesn't make you a winner. Look at team USA. We got our collective asses handed to us. On the other hand, Japan had an amazing chemistry, and every single guy on that team knew his role, and was willing to do whatever necessary to win games. The '96 Yankees was one of the best teams I ever saw. There weren't many huge stars on that team, and even the ones who became stars, weren't yet. I've been saying for years, if you gave me 9 clones of Derek Jeter, I would giftwrap the WS ring every year. This is what we are talking about here. Manigni is looking to build a team of Jeters. It's the right thing to do to win a championship. Look at the Knicks. There's a lot of talent on that team, but they suck. On the other hand, the Nets, who are an amazing team, is playing great ball this year. Look at the Steelers. A great team. They played for Bettis and Cowher, something above the "me." This is what we mean by "Mangini Guys."
9 Derrick Jeters would be great-- I am saying that I don't want 9 luis soho's on the team. He may have had a few nice games, and contributed a bit, but all in all, the guy is a backup.
This is exactly what I mean. How do you know Mangini means it when he says it and Herm doesn't. Mangini can say whatever he wants; that is not why I started this thread. My main problem is that Mangini has never even fielded an NFL team yet. Its one thing to say that a player is a Parcells guy or an Al Davis guy because those guys have been coaching forever so we have gotten to know them. You guys should reserve judgement on what a Mangini guy is until we have more proof about what he likes in players than what he said in his introductory speech. :shit:
Okay, now you are speaking apples to apples. No one here is saying they want a team full of Sohos. What everyone is saying this staff wants is a team full of CMarts and Chrebets. Selfless, do-whatever-it-takes-to-win guys, who have some natural talent. I am a huge Yankee fan, and Jeter is one of the greatest Yankees ever, but he is not one of the most raw-talented. However, he is the most complete player in the game of baseball right now, and has been for years. A-Rod may be the game's best player, but he lacks leadership, and the humility to do the small things. This is what Jeter brings to the table, and why he is a superstar. Jeter is a Mangini guy. CMart is a Mangini guy. Jason Giambi is not a Mangini guy. Neither is Chad Johnson.
Well the "Mangini Guy" talk really got heated up after the first couple of moves. The trade of Abe, the signing of Kimo. He had already made the statements, but after making some moves, and given the history of coaches he has been cultivated under, people are making a fairly safe assumption that he means what he is saying. Herm was full of crap. A lot of us, myself included, were fooled by his smile though. Mangini doesn't come off as a BSing type of guy. We could be wrong, but I doubt it. Given his pedigree, which Herm didn't have, I think Mangini is a no-nonsese business-at-all-times guy.
Give me an example of some of the small things that A Rod does not do? People hate him for no other reason than for the fact that he is paid a lot--- otherwise, he doesn't get into trouble, says all the right things to the media, he fields the ball well, he steals bags, he hits for average, and power, and he SWITCHED POSITIONS EVEN THOUGH IS IS BETTER THAN JETER!!
Wait a sec, I don't hate A-Rod at all. Don't get me wrong. You are right about the things you said, but here is an example. Runners on second and third, 1 out, Yanks down by 1. Could you even imagine A-Rod squaring for a bunt? Not a chance. He'd be swinging for the fence, or at least for a double. That's what I mean about the little things. Jeter would do it in a heartbeat, possibly without even getting the sign. But this is moving very off topic. I was only using the Yanks to illustrate the point.
You are correct about whether or not Mangini means what he says. I just happen to trust the quiet guys that dont beat their chests to mean what they say. Now as far as how do I know Herm didnt mean what he says..do you have an hour? This is not totally directed to you...but also to rajensen088...so dont take this personally. Herm told us that you play to win the game...when I here that phrase..to this day...I run to the bathroom and stick my fingers down my throat just to "get it over with". Herm told us when Paul Hackett was here that he decided to keep Hackett on board when everyone was calling for his head because he had a long talk with Hackett about the conservative offense...and now "Hackett gets it". Little did we know back then that it was not only Hackett..it was Herm playing it safe...but back then didnt have the balls to just say "Hey..thats how I believe you win games...conservative offense." Herm preached accountability to his team...and when it came down to being accountable, we heard stories about chickens and buses and 89% and kool aid and a punt is better than a turnover and you will see more Lamont Jordan and on and on. For a guy that beat his chest everyday about mental toughness, he coached like the 1st little pig. He ran a training camp where the fans in the seats watching sweat more than the players. The same guy that preached how you have to be sure of who you are...after the KC game...handed out a flyer..more like an advertisment to the press explaining what is "Jet Football". He preached about being prepared and on the first game of the season in KC...the team played as if there was an execution squad outside Arrowhead that would shoot any Jet that made a tackle. Bottom line is that Herm Edwards was...and always will be a fake..and a fraud. Do I really know what kind of coach Mangini will be? Nope...but I do know I would never bet on the guy that grabs the microphone and screams to the world who he is....and Mangini isnt that guy.
Herm showed he was glitz no substance. Mangini seems the excat opposite. He could be some find if he has a sense of humor like parcells...... As a baseball (and yes, Met) fan, Jeter is NOT the best all around player in the game. But he does have a knack for making the best, most awesome play when it really matters most. Honestly, there are several shortstops in the AL whose stats are better than Jeter's but none who seems to treat the game like Neo in the Matrix does......... There are many guys whose stats Jeter can't touch. But let me pick one player in baseball for hte WS - Jeter it is.
Nope he's saying the debate about the topic is settled because everyone has agreed that you didn't know what you were talking about. Now the debate is over your self-appreciating attitude and resulting ignorance.
Tony was exactly right, the discussion is not about the topic, it's about you and your incessant denial of the ignorance of your post. This is exactly what I am saying and your argument contradicts the logic of those questions. The reason I pointed out your continued logical fallacy was because I understand those questions, and you, obviously, do not. Reread what you wrote and them edit that post when you realise you've contradicted yourself.
OK now you are annoying the crap out of me-- this is the statement that I responded to and agreed with... "And just because a player is not that talented but is signed by Mangini does not automatically make him have good character." I agree with that, and I think many people on here do just that, and assume someone has good character but really has no clue about the guy-- however, you are accusing me of saying that high character guys are not good players-- "Favre is a character guy, so is Curtis Martin, so is John Lynch...they are not talentless." I never said anything about character guys not having talent... I agreed with a statement that said that not all players with little talent are automatically character guys. Again-- "All football players wear helmets... The boy is wearing a helmet... is the boy a football player?" If you answed yes, or no, you should think for a few more minutes. If you argue back and still accuse me of saying this, then I guess I am all out of options. if the direct quotes don't do it, I don't know what will.
I don't want to run this post too off topic again, but let me clarify. I do not believe Jeter is the most talented player in the game. He is however, quite arguably the most well-rounded player in the game. I don't mean stat-wise. I mean in terms of total package. He has very good talent, both defensively, and at the plate. He makes wonderful plays on the field (if you didn't see him dive into the stands, cutting open his face on a seat, to catch a foul ball, against Boston, you really should. It was insane.) He is always willing to sacrifice his body to make a play. He can hit a homer any time at the plate, yet he is never swinging for the fence. If there is a bunt situation, he never hesitates. His stats mean nothing to him. It's all about doing what it takes to help the team. He was given the title Captain because he is a true leader. (If you aren't a Yankee fan, you may not understand just what that title means to a member of the team. We went for years without one after Mattingly.) I know this probably just sounds like typical Yankee fan posturing, but I hope you understand that it isn't what I'm trying to do. If Jeter played for any other team, I would feel the same way about him. Sure, there are many other guys in MLB that have more talent. All I am saying is that if you gave me one player to clone 8 times and place them on a field, I would clone Jeter, and give you a WS champ every year. It's more about the intangibles, and that is how I tie it into this topic. Mangini wants guys like that. Men who put the long-term success of the club over their stats. I really don't want to keep this tangent going, I just wanted to clarify so you don't just take it as yet another "My Yankees are better than your Mets" post. I hope this made sense.
Well I guess this "Mangini guy" is somebody after all... even if we loose all our remaining games. Ya just never know if Chad will fall down and his arm will fall off. That wouldn't be Manginis fault. One more win and were 100% better than last yr... amazing
I don't think Chad Johnson distracts from the team as much as you imply he does. He's the best WR in football, not TO, and he doesn't distract a team even close to as much as TO does.
