It's sad but true, Jake Long will be compared to Ogden, Pace etc, that's part of where you are drafted in the NFL and what the people before you accomplished. I never called Gholston a bust, check all my posts.....never were spoken by myself. The problem I have with Gholston, IMO, he's not worth the value he was drafted to be a project OLB for the Jets. I just don't see Gholston making the transition. Gholston is a great kid, he's smart, he knows how to be a good teammate and not get into trouble. VG just doesn't have the skillset to make the transition to OLB. Love him as a 4-3 DE to rush the passer.
I think thats a bit unfair on Long, because its tough to expect ANY player to come in and be a hall of famer from day 1. I do know your consistent with Gholston and have been since before the draft pick but I just think to have such heavy expectations for a kid even where he was picked is tough. Which leads me to my next point somewhat.... It just seems like us Jet fans just arent patient at all when it comes to these draft picks. D'Brick has a bad 2nd year after a good rookie season and he is automatically labeled as a bust and a bad pick, Clemens has had 1 year of true playing time and is labeled as an awful pick, I am pretty sure Keller will get some hate to even if he has 1 drop too this year. Its just silly to expect crazy numbers in their rookie year, he WONT be a domination from day 1 but he can be certainly is a guy who if used properly, can certainly make the D better.
I wasn't happy with the D-Brick pick, I wanted AJ Hawk (so I'm not a Buckeye hater) but I knew with D-Brick it would take some time, a learning curve. Jet fans, like all NFL fans, will always get down on a player when they screw up and praise them when they make a play. The thing I'm bothered with VG is he's being asked to do something he has no clue on accomplishing. The difference with my belief, is that VG WILL NEVER be the OLB the Jets are asking him to become and I base that on my observation of VG over the past 3 years. The debate will continue and some agree and some disagree, I feel I have an advantage to most poster's......I attended most all OSU games and seen VG in person. I support my feelings thru what I've seen first hand.
Why would you join a Jets message board if you think there's no point in talking about anything? We all know we don't have any power - doesn't mean we don't have opinions.
Hold on...you acknowledged that D'Brick would have a learning curve...but Gholston is a bust already despite the whole...position change and everything that comes with it? I mean I GET that you saw him for 3 years and so on...but what does that actually mean in the end? How many NFL players are the same player they were in college? I mean in college DeMarcus Ware was primarily a pass rusher and Merriman was moved around alot in the Maryland system...now it's Merriman the pass rusher vs. Ware the jack of all trades. Shit happens. Players can be and *are* molded in todays NFL. Get off the rookies back. Let him take a snap in an actual game.
He is not a bust for learning a new position. He may be a bust because he can't rush the passer. Two entirely different things. And that is where people need to start removing the green colored glasses.
Ok its great you have an opinion, and post all you want. Talk all you want, but IT IS NOT GOING TO MAKE THE FRONT OFFICE DO ANYTHING. Next time actually understand what I say before you respond to me. I did not say you shouldn't post. There are like 5 topics about VG being a bust, isn't one enough?
Seriously, am I missing games people haven't seen? Like...where are you people getting this shit from? He can't rush the passer? Is that why he managed to break Ohio friggin States sack record in like 18 starts? You guys are fuckin riiiiidiculous on this. Gotta love how if a guy has a great preseason it'd be "whoa hold your horses, he hasn't done anything yet" but the...bad one...based on the professional eyes on this board...has given you all the chance to declare yourselves right and him a definitive bust. The new guys right though...in the end you're just a bunch of guys overreacting to a preseason...it's still up to Gholston and the coaching staff...and unlike you guys I don't think the CS has limited Gholston's timetable to just-before-his-first-career-snap. I mean I guess you could keep patting yourselves on the back...but I don't see why unless you're really *that* dead set on seeing another Jet draft pick bust...
In evaulating players, I make a decision on what I see from their past accomplishments. I felt D-Brick would be good, but would struggle early and willing to give him time. D-Brick had all the basic tools and experience to become a very good NFL OT and most important played the position in College he was being drafted for in the NFL.. As far as Gholston, I just don't see the potential for him being successful at OLB, even after the expected learning curve these Jet Fans and mangement are willing to give him. Comparing D-Brick's situation to Gholston's are 2 different scenarios....... my belief Gholston won't make it as an OLB.
its all fueled by the disappointment of not making a play against the Philly 2nd squad. He's not meeting the boards expectations, including mine. My posts will show that I think he needs a full season and that where he is now is not good. I overall just want to see him be a football player and not a "oh, should I be here now?" player. I still say a full year until next preseason we see him actually do something. I think the CS saw this and thats why Thomas and Pace are ahead of him. He will get 7 snaps a game, but nothing to where he can be gauged. This debate will go on all season. If the Jets are ahead by 24 pts with 8 mins left in the 4th quarter... play him. Other than that, its consistent tutelage by Bryan Cox and Pace to teach him how to play the position. The kid is going to need the entire season, but fan expectations want more. I'd like to see him get 3-5 sacks this season. OR, trade him for Chris Long, and those two players' transition into the NFL will be complete by week 7.
Mick, I agree with you and even I'm a little disappointed by the lack of excitement Gholston has brought this preseason...BUT...these people writing him off as a bust and already patting themselves on the back for calling it are just...well it's a special thing.
OK... He's still learning the position to start... He's played in four preseason games and hasn't looked great, but remember... He's only played in FOUR PRESEASON GAMES... This is way to early to decide who's right and who's wrong about Gholston...
I'm not saying he's a bust. But I am saying a project player is not worth the #6 overall draft pick. Why draft a player that's not NFL ready. There were plenty of NFL ready players available who have tons of upside too. I'm just sick of teams drafting project players is all. More often than not, they don't work out.
True...how stupid were the Bengals for taking Palmer #1 despite the fact that he wasn't going to start from Day 1? Or the Falcons for taking Vick at #1despite him not being a finished product at QB? ALL players in the draft are projects...there is no such thing as a prospect who will remain the same player he was in college for his entire NFL career...not unless that player plans to be a bust...the NFL's *slightly* different from college football. And if you want to go into the whole...why draft a guy in the top 10 and then move him from his position thing...I could ask who you would rather have chosen...or why it's so crazy to think asking a DE to become an OLB in the 3-4 when so many others have done it...I mean Ware, Merriman, and Wimbley were all top 15 picks within the past 3 years...their teams made major investments and hopes into those 3...seems to be working fine for those teams... BTW: Who would you rather have drafted in the top 10?
I already said in my last post (maybe 2 posts ago) that I would have gone with Stewart, McKelvin, or Phillips with the #6 pick. I think they were players that could immediately help a team that is looking to win now. If you have no real holes, then fine, I can agree with drafting a project player because it just might put your team over the top. But if you're looking to win now, it makes no sense to pass on a player like Kenny Phillips in that spot. Sure, you obviously could have gotten him lower, so maybe you try to trade and maybe you give up a little bit in that trade because #6 doesn't have as much value, but that just shows you how many teams wanted Gholston. I still think you could have made the trade, ended up with Phillips and another pick and gotten a player in Phillips that could really help your team now and in the long run. As for Palmer and Vick, I consider those 2 very bad examples. Sure, QBs take the longest to groom, but my biggest problem with that example? They are both bad picks!!!!! Vick sucked, always has. Sure he brings another element to the QB position, but he's still an awful QB. He never put that team over the top, and their investment in him only made it worse. As for Palmer, he sure can put up #'s for a game or two a season, but he's not a very good QB. He's got some smarts, and a load of talent, but he has yet to put it all together, and I'm one starting to doubt he ever will. With his talents, he should be mentioned in the same breath as Manning and Brady, but he never will be. So yeah, I'll label him a bad pick because I barely think he's a top 15 QB outside of fantasy football. I know that all players are technically projects, but some are a lot moreso than others. An NFL ready players is a player that can still grow in his position, but he's ready to play when he gets there. A football player is a football player is what it comes down to. The instincts are always there. There might be some growing pains, but for the most part, they know what they're doing. I don't see Gholston as that type of player. I also don't think it's entirely his fault. He was always faster and stronger than the guy on the other side, so why not just bull rush and get to the QB like he did in college? Now he's got a new position, and is going up against guys that can move like him and are stronger than he is. For so long he has done the same thing, it's like trying to teach an old dog new tricks and I'm not sure it's going to pan out. It's not fair to him because we're asking him to do something he's never been asked to do, and want him to pick it up immediately. But I just have my doubts that he'll ever figure it out, always did have those doubts, and think we should have gone in another direction at #6. I'm not saying those guys (Merriman, Ware, etc.) aren't working out for their respective teams, but in my opinion, they showed more versatility. I don't feel that Gholston has that versatility to make the switch. If you do, that's great. But differing opinions is what makes the world go round.
^ I'm sorry, Palmer is no good? Put him on the Vikings and that team wins the SB. Palmer has what it takes, its that sorry excuse for a parole/half-way house team that he's on. Palmer goes to any decent team, they are Conference Champion contenders. I agree with you on the versatility. Gholston is a hunter, not read and react. He might be able to become that guy, but he has to learn more about football before that happens. He has all season to learn it, but expectations are high and the money has been invested. Doesn't this team love players who are versatile?
hmm.. I was talking about pre-season in the NFL and you're still talking about college? Really? I didn't see anybody declare him a bust. At least I didn't. I said he could become a bust if he can't rush the passer. So far he hasn't.
The defense is a sorry excuse for a parole/half-way house. The offense, while it has it's legal issues I'm sure, is stellar. I see it as the opposite of you actually. That offense can make a QB look better than he is. I might agree that put him on the Vikes and that team wins the SB. To me, that's a testament to the Vikes being almost there, and Palmer really is that much better than Tarvaris Jackson (who I think is absolutely terrible). Here's my list of QBs I would take over Palmer (and my top 15 might be a stretch based on what I come up with here, as I just kinda picked a number there haha): Peyton Brady Brees Romo Favre Delhomme McNabb Roethlisberger Hasselbeck Warner There's 10 in my opinion (I'd be willing to argue for any of those guys), and I can argue in favor of Eli, Cutler, Garrard, and Bulger, but I can see those going either way. Yes, Palmer puts up some big #'s, but he just doesn't seem to have the field vision some of these other guys have. I feel like he doesn't do enough with the talent around him.
^ He sent Chad and TJ Housh to the pro bowl. He makes Chris Henry look better than I think he is. He doesn't utilize the TE, but he doesn't need to. I disagree with the last sentence. Warner, McNabb, and Delhomme I think he's better than. The rest of the list I can actually agree with.
OK. And Gholston can't? And won't? You're kind of ignoring the whole "games haven't even started" thing You *really* think Phillips was worth the 6th pick? Even then, what exactly have...any of those guys proven over Gholston? It's been a preseason. WTF. Damn...stunning how quickly peoples memories can be erased and changed isn't it? The Falcons without Vick won the #3 pick in the draft. The Falcons with Vick got a 3 time Pro Bowl QB who took them to the playoffs twice. Bad pick in hindsight? Sure. But Vick was a damn good player in this league. Overrated? Sure. Bad? Hell no. LOL @ at the shit you have to say about Palmer. Dude...Gholston *could* be playing 4-3 DE, but he's not being asked to play 4-3 DE. He is *learning a new position.* It was just his first fucking pre-season. Is it possible for me to emphasize that enough? No, it'll get thrown away anyway. Ah. How'd Harris look last preseason? Can't remember? Did nothing that stood out? And yet a whole league paid to figure out just what kind of player Gholston can be would have been shocked if he made it out of the top 10 last year. He was in consideration for the #1 pick. Yet, you've got him down after a preseason. See where my problem is? Huh? TF does that even mean? D'you pay close attention to them their first preseasons? Or is this all before me due to the gift and hindsight and the vagueness of a few words? I'm guessing the latter...
