Because I've been watching this team for 35 years and it's the same thing almost every time. Always new guys, a new scheme, something to fix it and it doesn't get fixed. So when I watch teams running down the field against us with ease again I get worried. Yes, it's pre-season, I hope I'm wrong. What else can I do? Can we stop someone one or two times before I get excited about how great they're going to be?
Cool. Any chance with a Gholston/Pace/Harris thing going on or maybe half of what those guys did in the 80's?
dont forget you are only seeing preseason games: 1- we are play mostly vanilla defense with few stunts and blitzing 2- VG is still learning how to play, so our d can only get better as he gets better 3- Pace is playing on a new team, so his productivity will only get better 4- ellis has been out, so his return will mean an inprovement 5- harris is not 100%, so he will only get more dominent 6- mangini is trying out different safety and db groups and players 6- there is always a chance of injury to a defensive player. no player wants to break an elbow or leg in preseason, espessially a 185 pound db fighting for a roster spot looking at a 240 pound lead blocker heading straight for him at full speed. in a real game, the secondary and even linebacker put a little more on the line to make plays 7- someone else take over from here.....my wife is pissed because im not in the shower yet. we're going to a comedy club 10 minutes ago!
Anyone who's been reading this board knows how disgusted I've been with Sutton, since LAST SEPTEMBER. i dont see much change in him, but there are some player additions to the defense that should help. Run D is still going to be an issue, and let me understate it by saying it wont be one of the strengths of the team. but it should be improved over last year. Jenkins will be the biggest difference in the run D. He is a space eater, and not easy to run on. he will draw double-teams, which should free up guys on stunts. Running up the gut against the Jets wont be easy, especially once Harris gets back into form. Barton is always tough against the run. Running off-tackle and wide is a greater concern though. I think Pace will be a great addition, but he cant seal off the side of the field all by himself. I wont be surprised to see Gohlston working in at BT's side if Thomas falters. They played Gohlston there in practice this week and he actually looked more comfortable on that side, imo. Bowens will be an impact player but is not an everydown player. Same with spencer. K. Coleman is steady but not dominant, and he has games where he gets outplayed. Ellis hasnt played in the PS, and Devito has done a good job, but it remains to be seen if he can get it done when the hitting starts for real. Everyone likes devito's motor though, and he will always give a great effort. The NT depth is improved- I like Mosley and Kareem brown backing up jenkins. DE is not a strength, though. Revis is shutdown, and one of the big IFs will be this kid Lowery. If he can win the starting job, I think he'll be an improvemnt over barrett and Miller. We can expect to see some rookie mistakes from Lowery- that is to be expected. But he has great football instncts, which cant be taught, and he could be a diamond in the rough. having Coleman, Barrett and Poteat as backups and nickel/dime guys is fine, but someone needs to step up at LCB, and I hope that guy is Lowery. Rhodes could be looking at an All-Pro season. I like E. Smith, but he needs to stay healthy and MUST be consistent. That is not a position where you can afford to make too many mistakes. elam makes plays- some of them boneheaded, and some of them hardheaded, but that is who he is. He is okay coming off the bench, but I dont want to see him in there as a starter. There is enough talent on the D to do well, though i dont expect it to be a dominant defense. The biggest question is the CS, making adjustments to what the other team is doing, putting guys in position to make plays by calling the right plays, and not looking like his head is up his ass while standing on the sideline. I think this offense will put points on the board, and the STs will hold their own, so the big key as far as the difference between say, 8-8 and 10-6 will be the defense not getting pushed around all over the field, and getting outcoached and outschemed as they were last season.
Sack Exchange Defense (OPP Rushing Yards(YPCarry), Passing Yards(YPCatch)) * 1980: 1951 (3.8), 3664 (7.2) 1981: 1867 (4.0), 3004 (7.0) 1982: 983 (3.7), 1646 (6.1) Strike season. 1983: 2378 (4.3), 2923 (7.1) 1984: 2064 (4.2), 3502 (7.6) 1985: 1516 (3.5), 3256 (7.2) 1986: 1661 (3.7), 4389 (7.6) 1987: 1835 (3.9), 3206 (7.0) A couple of convenient yardsticks 1985 Bears: 1319 (3.7), 2816 (6.3) 2000 Ravens: 970 (2.7), 2997 (6.0) Last year's Jets defense: 2156 (4.2), 3154 (7.2) p.s. I still hate Don Shula. *stats from nfl.com
I thought they were at their best in the 4-3, with Salaam and Lyons in the middle to stuff the run. That freed up Klecko and Gastineau to rush the QB, Klecko ended up with 20-1/2 sacks and Gastineau I think 21 in 1981. When they switched to the 3-4 in 83 they got torched by the run a lot early in the season, including Eric Dickerson in one of his first games as a pro. Klecko after the knee injury had to play inside, eventually he developed that crooked way to line up that gave him an edge. He jumped offsides a lot late in his career as he started to try an anticipate the snap count. When it worked he was deadly, when it didn't it cost us 5 yards. Gastineau, despite his flaws, was a monster right up until the day he retired.
Unfortunately 1982 is the first year the NFL started tracking sacks. edit: or at least its the first year they have available on their website.
We have only seen about 5-8 defensive drives by our starters. Its just way over the top to be thinking our Defense stinks like last yr. These guys need to gel together and the preseason helps alot just to know each others strengths and weaknesses and adjust your game accordingly. So far I have ONLY seen improvement. We will have one of the best defense we've had in some time IMO.
I'm not thinking that yet myself. The question here is "are you worried?" and my answer as of now is "yes".
Anyone else like our D-line backups as much as I do? Brown, DeVito, Pouha, and Moseley have all looked good when they've seen the field. The 3-4 lives and dies on its DL rotation, and these guys have shown/are showing that they can/will be competent backups. Don't sleep on Brown as a starter one day either. Thats not the first time I've said this (or that either ^).... He's definitely got the kind of skills and size a 3-4 team would want...
Apparently, my answer is no, Im not worried. I would be if we give up 100 yds rushing to the patriots though.
Really I hadn't noticed. :smile: I'm concerned also, with Jenkins and Harris in the middle teams are going to design plays to the outside and we better be able to contain from day one. Thomas is actually pretty good at taking on the run at the line but he is terrible at getting untangled to the outside. I want to see how they look with both Ellis and Harris playing full time. Ellis is vastly under rated on this board, he carried the D in 04 playoffs and has been taking on double teams every since. I think Jenkins is going to make a huge difference for Ellis this year, hopefully he is healthy.
I don't either....they should have fired Sutton. We cannot have a third year of guys getting used to one another, or hearing about "run fits", or any of that garbage. Other teams make changes and they stop the run. We never get it going until after the bye. Not this yyear, please.
Interesting thing about that article is how they criticize Mangini for not getting a 350 lb NT. Now he has one and its a former All-Pro who loves his new team and wants to return to form. BTW, the last good Jet defense was in 2004, when they were 5th against the run, 7th overall, LAST IN PENALTIES, and Donnie Henderson was telling his defensive players to hospitalize the other team. Bob Sutton does not tell his players to hospitalize the other team.
Ftr I am also down on Sutton, but as you note the DL rotation looks good. This is arguably the deepest corps on the team, which is a good thing in, as you point out, the 3-4. The other thing that has me optimistic is we should recall that DRob and Vilma were not too helpful against the run the last two years, mismatched with the 3-4. Adddition by subtraction. Plus we have not yet seen much of Ellis. I remain a fan of his, and look forward to him getting in there.
