Also, I hear ya about the jets not needing an old quarterback that isn't going to give them a Superbowl. I am shocked at how many people on this board think it's a no-brainer to trade a draft pick for a 38 (39 in October) year old quarterback at the tail end of his career with a "I can't decide if I want to play" complex. Having said that, I think the fact that Brett Favre would be an upgrade over either pennington or Clemens, makes it such that I would probably make the trade, providing that I had to give up NO MORE than a 2nd round draft pick.
haha, great point. How quickly we forget what an injury prone player pennington really is. Meanwhile, Brett is an iron man. I still don't think it's a no-brainer though.
That is one of my all time favorite quotes. Thanks for reminding me of it. Still makes me laugh, and still is true. I'm not going to get involved in this debate. There is only so many ways you can say the same thing, But........... Times have changed. With the modern cover 2 and 3 D's it is very difficult to throw the ball upfield with any consistency. Even for the big armed QB's they have to sucker the safeties up, then kill em deep.
Jokes aside, Terry Bradshaw's career is one of the most profitable and successful of all former players in the history of the league, while the who guy coined that phrase is scraping his life up from the bottom of a used coffee can.
There can be a huge difference between football smarts and general intelligence. Bradshaw was brilliant with a football and he had amazing receivers and an incredible team around him. He didn't make the consistently stupid throws Favre has throughout his career. Some people actually think Favre is the greatest QB since he owns a lot of career records. Nonsense, that one isn't even close.
The double standard on this board is incredible. Favre has one good year after three bad ones and we are to throw out the bad years and accept that the good year last year is a predictor of things to come for a 39 year old. Pennington has one bad year after three good seasons (Yes 2004 and 2006 were good seasons) and we are to throw out the good seasons (one of which, 2006, came with a team that had no OL, no running game and a bad defense - Pennington was a major reason the Jets made the playoffs in 2006) and accept that last year's performance on that putrid team is a predictor of things to come for Pennington. I actually watched almost every game Green Bay played the last two years because I have Sunday Ticket and I had Packer receivers on my fantasy team. Do you know the real reason Favre's 2007 season was so good? The Packers led the NFL in yards after the catch, they had a running game for the first time in years, and had one of the best defenses in the NFL. All three of those things make all the difference for a QB. Jennings and Driver turned 5 yard slants into long gains. Grant and the OL made teams respect the run and gave Favre time. The defense actually gave him the ball and even gave him a short field every now and then. All of those concepts were foreign to the Jets last year, who couldn't pass protect, run the ball, rush the passer, stop the run, or cause turnovers. I'm not saying Favre was not one of the greatest QBs ever. He was. I'm not saying Pennnington's career even compares to Favre's. It doesn't. But Favre's best years were in another decade and taking a 39 year old in the twilight of his career on a team that is still learning to win is not the answer. Think of Boomer on the Jets, or Namath on the Rams, or Unitas on the Chargers, or McNair on the Ravens or Simpson on the 49ers or Smith on the Cardinals or Rice on the Raiders/Seahawks. Bringing in these old HOFers rarely works. Let's find our own young QB to lead this team and not waste our time pining for a QB we saw excel in the 90s and hope he still has that magic. One more thing. There is no way that Favre learns this offense and the personnel in time to make a difference this season. It's too late already. Esiason said this morning on FAN that it would be impossible for Favre to learn the Jet offense this season and that it would be a "disaster" bringing him here. This whole speculation is hurting the team at this point. I just want it to go away. By the way, it was Thomas Henderson of the Cowboys who said that about Terry Bradshaw before the Super Bowl in January 1979. And he said Bradshaw couldn't spell CAT if you spotted him the C and the A.
i'm not denouncing your points...because you make a good case. But i have Sunday Ticket as well...and seen a tonne of games over the last few years. Having said that...Favre is pretty clutch....that bomb he threw to Jennings in OT against the Broncos was a thing of beauty....and when he threw..what was it..4 TD's against Oakland after his learning his father died....how many QB's do you know that could pull off such a clutch performance after losing a loved one the very same day. Pennington is accurate...and has won in this league.....but i would take Favre's arm, his savvyness, and his passion to win anyday over Pennington.....but that's just my opinion :smile:
Well, let's take a look at Penningtons three "good seasons" compared to Favre's three "bad seasons". Code: GS GP Yards TD INT 2006 New York Jets 16 16 313 485 64.5 3,352 6.9 17 16 30 172 82.6 35 109 3.1 0 7 4 2005 New York Jets 3 3 49 83 59.0 530 6.4 2 3 9 52 70.9 6 27 4.5 0 8 2 2004 New York Jets 13 13 242 370 65.4 2,673 7.2 16 9 18 103 91.0 34 126 3.7 1 5 2 2006 Green Bay Packers 16 16 343 613 56.0 3,885 6.3 18 18 21 134 72.7 23 29 1.3 1 8 5 2005 Green Bay Packers 16 16 372 607 61.3 3,881 6.4 20 29 24 170 70.9 18 62 3.4 0 10 7 2004 Green Bay Packers 16 16 346 540 64.1 4,088 7.6 30 17 12 93 92.4 16 36 2.3 0 4 1 Totals: Yards TD's INT's GS GP Penny 6555 35 28 32 32 Favre 11854 68 64 54 54 You don't get to take away the injury season for pennington because that's one of his major flaws. Not his fault, but a flaw none the less. Call me crazy, but I'll take Favre's 3 bad seasons over Penningtons 3 good seasons. The YAC you talk about is part of him playing smarter. He's relying on his team mates more, letting them do the work and not trying to force stupid shit. Obviously the team around him was much better as well. The Esiason comment bothers me. If an ex-NFL QB doesn't think he could learn the offense in time then he's probably right. Maybe it's just a pipe dream.
Why do you think the Packers don't want Favre back? You think it's because they are tired of his flip-flopping on retirement? Maybe they want to teach him a lesson. They know he gives them their best chance to win a Super Bowl but they're going to cut of their nose to spite their face. The reason they don't want him back is because they have spent the last five months putting in a whole new system, both on offense and defense, a system geared to Rogers. To bring Favre back they'd basically have to toss all that out and go back to where they were. They don't want to do that. They like where they are. They think they can win with what they have. If Favre were to come to the Jets it'd be worse. They wouldn't have to reset they'd have to start from square zero. And look at it this way. If it took Favre 14 years to stop throwing stupid passes, he'll be 50 by the time he learns a new playbook! :wink:
^ I already addressed everything you said in that post and I'm not going to repeat it. Go back and read it yourself if you care to. btw - way to completely avoid the point I just made.
Comparing Favre to Pennington. Why not just say Pennington is much better than Namath and ignore the reality. Pennington doesn't deserve to be in the conversation. Favre could very well suck and clearly does nothing but bring a tough gunslinger mindset with a good arm and healthy body to a team that has played like finese pussey's on O with little to back it up other than some trick plays. Getting Favre could be like KC getting Montana who didn't really help them or he could be like the Rams getting Namath desperation that didn't work. The only reason this makes any sense is the organization has built a pretty good team but has left a crater at the QB position and if the team fails this year and next which it probably will without a QB option, and the banking and financials continue to be in recession, the Jets are screwed.
There are a lot of ifs in your comment. Yes, the Jets look better on paper, but will it all come together? It's tough to go from an abysmal 4-12 to Super Bowl contender in one year. And I'm really not convinced Favre is all that good at 38, especially for this team at this stage of the offseason.
I personally believe Favre will suck. However Favre sucking will be a huge imporvement over Chad sucking. This team is being built for size, speed and intimidation. Having a QB with a check down mindset is all wrong, Favre at least brings an element of toughness and as the leader of the team could have a big positive impact on the transition of the team. For all of Favre's negatives he is as tough as nails and is feerless. For all the guys who think Namath is over rated, when we went against the Raiders and the Colts, it was Namath who was always the toughest least afraid player on the field. Without that the Jets would have never won a big game.
BOTTOMLINE, if you could have favre or pennington hands down you pick favre. what comes into question is what you are willing to give up for him. i wouldn't give up a first day pick, i'd rather stick with noodle arm or give the kid a shot. get me garcia. for real, west coast offense qb with an arm that doesnt make too many mistakes. and you definitely don't have to give up a first day pick for him.
Now this is me, but I think the true advantage of having a Favre on your team is that opposing defenses have to respect the deep ball. The way our team is built this year is to run the ball, right? Well how long do you think it will be until there are routinely 8 guys in the box. Shoot if Pennington wins the job I wouldn't be surprised to see 9 guys creeping up. This is whats going to kill our running game no matter how good our line is. Favre will stretch the field and make opponents defend more total area than with Pennington at QB. This is advantage enough for us to take a shot on him. Besides all the championships and moxy he shows from week to week. If we can get him without giving up too much why not take a chance on him?
I'm not denouncing your points, but Favre's performance after his father died was in 2003 - 5 years ago, and is no longer relevant. As for clutch, I've seen him throw many late game picks in recent years. My points are still valid- he's old and last year's performance was an aberration that was greatly contributed to by a great performance by his teammates.
I was actually counting 2002, 2004 and 2006 for Pennington because those are the three years before 2007 that he played full seasons, but you can throw 2003 in as well. Looking at your stats, I'd say Pennington had better years in 2004 and 2006 than Favre. In addition, Esiason went into quite a bit of detail yesterday morning on the complexities of learning a new offense. He stated he was certain that Favre to the Jets would fail. I think your concerns about this point are justified. I think too many people are just having a knee jerk reaction to this. They hear Brett Favre and think "get him." Their analysis begins with "he's Brett Favre" and ends with "he's better than Pennington and Clemens." The analysis leaves out his age, his contract, his constant waffling, his one year resurgence after a clear decline over the past few years, his ability to actually learn a new offense in a month, the hole it will leave at QB in 1 or 2 years, the mess it will cause for the Jets in next year's draft if he refuses to decide if he will play in 2010, etc. People just think Brett Favre, HOF, strong arm. That's it. If it were 10 years ago, it would be a no brainer. If Carson Palmer were a free agent, you'd say grab him in a heartbeat. But he is 39 and it is coming to an end for him and I don't want my team to be the place for his downfall and failure, especially when the Jets are making such strides. Pennington is not likely to be the long-term answer and Clemens may not either. But I can say with certainty that I don't think Favre has a snowballs chance in hell of taking the Jets to a SB and I think the odds are greater that he fails than succeeds. Then the Jets are in the crapper at QB. What if Favre sucks, but want to play again in 2010? The Jets are stuck with him. It's a mistake.
sorry dude, but that's probably one of the dumbest things i've ever read on this board. Any human being that can pull off a performance like that on the Monday Night stage, learning the same day that he lost his father (who he was pretty tight with) is nothing short of extraordinary...it doesn't matter if it happened 20 years ago or 10 days ago....it's just as relevant now as it was then. Well..you're looking at a half-empty glass, mine is half full...because i've seen a lot of 4th quarter heroics in Favre's career to offset those INT's he's thrown. So we'll have to agree to disagree on that point.
