He may have passed a physical, but that does not mean he is where he used to be. He is still old, I don't care if he is a year older, it doesn't help his cause with the injuries he has sustained. He is less of a threat and concern because of his past injuries as you have just stated. Baker is still proving himself, he has no nagging injuries, and he can still play at a high level. It just makes no sense. Him being a better blocker is debatable at this point because of Franks downfall in his career due to his age and injuries. After this season I'm sure we will have all the answers to these questions. Keller's Pre-Draft - ^ The Keller argument would make sense in a couple years of devolopment, it makes no sense for the here and now. He is not going to do all that Baker can at the moment. Keller is not proven, he is not a player that has proven anything yet, he is not garunteed to establish himself, and just because his pre-draft is close to Baker's does not mean that he will contribute to this team, even anywherehere near what Baker has. So yes, we would be screwed. It was a good attempt at disrupting my argument though.
Wow, you're really making Baker out to be a lot more than he really is. He's a dependable player, but he is only an average blocker. He's got great hands, I'll give you that, but only average speed. He really is just an average TE, not the second coming of Gates or Gonzalez as you're making him out to be.
Perhaps the most misguided post I seen around here in a long time. The hate for Baker is comming from his immature actions regarding a contract he signed last year. If I didn't Know better I would have thought this was a Raiderjoe post.
I completely annihilated your argument. I made no attempt at disruption. Franks - Only a year older, yet has been to multiple pro bowls. Athletes get injuries and recover all the time, hell Baker's "injured" right now. He's as fast as Baker, 3 inches taller, 30 pounds heavier, better blocker (not debatable), better separation, equal hands. Keller - Unproven. (I'd rather have unproven with major upside, than proven to be average.) Faster, better routes, better separation, equal hands, game breaker, same size and build, same questions regarding blocking coming out of college. And neither is a douche.
Mangini On Baker From Cimini's Blog July 22, 2008 Mangini says everything's sweet with Baker Eric Mangini, appearing as a guest this morning on WFAN?s ?Boomer and Carton? show, shed a little light on the Chris Baker/PUP decision. The most newsworthy thing he said was, ?I don?t anticipate it being long term.? By rule, Baker can be activated at any time - as soon as he passes the physical. From what I?ve been told, he could be on the field in a matter of days. Don?t be surprised if it happens by the weekend. Explaining the move, Mangini said, ?Right at the start of training camp ? you go through tests to see if they?re ready to take part in training camp. There are a lot of different components to that test. It?s conditioning, some of it?s medical. You go through that evaluation. You don?t want to put a player on the field until he?s ready to go.? Mangini painted a rosy picture, making it sound like Baker, who reported Sunday with other injured players, is willing to be a good soldier. ?Chris has been great,? the coach said. ?He has been great in the classroom. He?s working on the things he needs to work on to get on the field, but he?s been really good since he?s been back.? It?ll be interesting to see what Baker has to say on Thursday, the first day of training camp. If he starts spouting the company line, dropping the rip-the-organization stance he took last month in minicamp, we?ll know something is up. Maybe the Jets told him and his agent that, if they keep their mouths shut, they?d do their best to trade him. Boomer asked Mangini a great question, wondering about Baker?s dorm - a half-joking reference to disgruntled G Pete Kendall being ?accidentally? assigned to the rookie dorm last summer. ?I usually don?t handle housing,? Mangini said, ?but I?m sure he?ll be in the dorm all the other guys are.? http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/jets/
I disagree with Cimini - If Baker starts spouting the company line, I wonder more if it means he and his agent finally realized they can't win - they have no legitimate claim for his contract to be re-done or for hor him to be traded, so he'll just go to work and play out his contract.
Annihilated... Hardly. I don't think Frank's is anywhere near his old form from a couple years ago. He was on a team where he was used proper when he did have those "pro-bowl" years that you referred to. If the Jets would use Baker the way he should be used, he could have probowl potential too. I think Frank's is going to be the third TE for a reason. We'll see. Baker's injury is no where near what Franks has endured. To be honest, I'm sure Baker is putting up more of a front with this injury out of ignorance then anything. It doesn't change the fact that he is solid for this team and he would be missed during the season if we lost him. Only time will tell. Oh... Your douche comment was cute. Good work but atleast if the douche doesn't do it's job, you can return the rest and get your money back. Can we return Keller if he flops on us? Nope, we get stuck with a bust of a TE in the first round, yet again, only we will still need to pay this guy if he doesn't work out. No return policy there.
Your logic is baffling. We had a good team in 2006 that didn't require the TE to stay in and block. What did Baker do? What did he do in is FIFTH year in the league? There's a reason his numbers are bad, and it's not the scheme. Are you honestly going to tell me, that in Shotty's offense, the TE is not used? Antonio Gates ring a bell? Baker cannot get open consistently. Baker was the 9th ranked TE coming out of college. He was a 3rd round pick. He's lived up to that and never shown a reason to believe he's any better. He's a decent, hard working guy that had no business shooting off his mouth. As of today, Baker is the 3rd best TE on this team. Assuming he cuts the crap and stays, he'll only start due to his knowledge of the system.
^To add to the part about Schotty using TE's in the systems he's been in (KC- Tony G, SD- Gates) Baker's biggest knock was his inability to separate from a defender when running routes, and running routes in general. Then I ask to those opposing the opinion - How is he such an offensive weapon, who can make pro bowls?
Oh ok.. So because our team was "good" in terms of wins, that really means that we were good? Disregard the fact that our offense was ranked in the middle twenties that year. Disregard that we had a very weak schedule that year. Disregard the fact that Baker only had like 30 receptions that year, so please tell me how he was used "proper" that year? Even though he still wasn't used proper, he still had more yards then, Bubba Franks. He improves his numbers every season he plays. His numbers are not terrible, especially when they don't use him proper. Yes I will say that Schotty, the guy who loves to use TE's, has not been able to do what he wants in my eyes. There are to many holes to do so with this offense, which also has a lot to do with our QB dilema. You really think he used the TE's properly last season? Not even 07' did he use them right, he was only creative with the offense in terms of TE's in 06' and to me that even seemed limited.
He only had 30 receptions, exactly my point. The guy can't get open. Not terrible, average. I never said he sucked. And how do you know they didnt use him properly? Shotty just said, nah I don't want to use the TE this season? Chad was CBPOY in 2006 and is a dink and dunk guy. TE's in such an offense should be major weapons in the passing game. Baker wasn't.
Raw, as in he signed a 4 yr contract, got money fronted for him last year which lowered this year's income, so now he is not the highest paid TE on the team as a result, and now he is pissed. That kind of raw?? F@*# his keester...
That, or he just doesn't get the throws that he should. I highly doubt he was only open 30 times the entire season. Same argument could be used. How do you know that Shotty DID use the tight ends properly? My view on this situation is that he was unable to use his weapons properly. Our offense had a lot of flaws even then, so I just feel that he was unable to run this offense exactly the way he wanted to. What does CP being the CBPOY have to do with this? That is exactly the problem with the dink and dunk QB. The problem was not all CB, the problem was that CP didn't have enough zip on the ball to make a lot of those passes to the recievers. That is not just CB, that was all of them. He just can't make a lot of throws and that limits production in a lot of aspects of the recieving game. Which includes the TE position.
This is one of the worst cases for an argument I've ever read. So when Coles and Cotch were the 4th best tandem in the AFC is 2006, its still CP's fault that Baker couldn't get the ball?? WRONG- Baker's route running completely blows. Thats been his flaw all his career.
Doesn't that mean that if our two recievers at the time were getting all the throws and were one of the best tandems in the league, that doesn't save to much room for our TE at the time? Just curious.
You really seem to be grasping for straws now. Let me get this straight, Coles and Cotch had no issues getting open and having a bunch of balls thrown their way yet Baker was just overlooked when he was open. Got it - that explains why the FO went out and picked up a FA TE and drafted another TE in the first round - so they can be overlooked while Coles and Cotch get all the balls. Wait, wait - I got it. Pennington just doesn't like Baker, and neither does the front office. It's a big conspiracy by all of them to make sure Baker doesn't get any glory - winning is secondary to keeping Baker down. I'll bet they draft 2 TE's on day one next year if Baker is still around. That would really stick him!
