For God's sake, you go in there to urinate. If you spend more than 2 minutes in there it's a lot, so it's clean enough for me. What does it have to look like, the men's room at the Manor restaurant? What do we need, marble sinks, gold-plated faucets, an attendant to hand out towels? I mean, come on fellas! It's a f@cking football stadium!
You may not have realized it but you posted where the savings from the shared stadium come from Which leads us to an even better question. If the Giants (as they had threatened to do) knocked down the old stadium, kciked the Jets out as tenants, and built themselves their own stadium, and if the Jets had gotten the approvals from NY for their proposed WSS, what the hell would the building costs have been then? And what would the PSLs be then? They would have had to charge $100,000 per seat!
Lightbulb! The Jets could get all the ex-players who didn't receive anything under the lousy pension plan and are struggling to fill these spots. Like...Oh, I can use a towel to dry my wet hands. Thank you Clark Gaines!!! Do you have any Drakkar Noir?... (Shpritz) Thanks. Here's a dollar.
Well, my point is, it wouldn't have flown economically. The expenses of building the WSS stadium smack in the heart of Manhatten would have mandated that they charge, say, $100,000, when all was said and done, and we can say that practically, many seats would not have sold! And the politicians, even here in NJ, were against public funding, so the concept of the shared stadium was born of this. The whole idea was that the costs would be greatly diminished. So what has happened to that savings and why are we being levied a PSL at all? That's my point. With the expenses being shared, it shouldn't be necessary. It's time for a class action suit. The public has been defrauded... sold a bill of goods. A suit would at least compel both teams to give an accurate accounting of WHY PSLs are necessary, given that this stadium was approved under the concept that a 50% savings could be achieved by sharing the building costs. They need to give a complete breakdown of all costs involved and show the public why these PSLs are necessary. If for no other reason, it would just be fun to watch Woody, Mara and Tisch squirm as they have to come up with answers.
Hahahahaa.... Chris Baker is on my list. Get him a stool to sit on in the corner. You think the rookie dorm is bad?
Yep sorry to say 227 the more U posted the more viable U are making the joint stadium which I think is the totally opposite of what you are trying to protray
It's not supply and demand here, it's commoditization. When a business is able to commoditize it's product to appeal to a wider base it prospers. When that commoditization costs it original markets it either accepts the loss of the market without significant economic loss or it withers. In this case the NFL has commoditized it's product to appeal to corporate interests as a whole and in the process it has raised the price of the commodity to the point that it's original market, the fans that filled stadiums in the 50's,60's and 70's, can no longer afford to go to the stadium. There are two answers for the NFL here: one they can just not care and maintain the pricing that exists, or two they could add a bunch of seats (like soccer clubs in south america do) and price the nosebleed seats such that almost anybody can afford a ticket. I'm betting they stay at one until they realize that young fans need to actually go to games to become hardcore enough to spread the love of the game to their kids. In 40 years the NFL will be very weak as a product if today's marketing schemes are allowed to run unchecked moving forward.
Wow this is one heck of a post & spot on. I can see exactly what you are saying occur as the hard core fans no longer have the passion to pass on to to there kids because they were priced out of the market by the team they rooted for.
What I'm trying to portray is that PSLs should not be necessary. The public and the fans had the right to expect that the shared costs and double-dip loan from the NFL should have brought cash-flow outlays down to a level at which the PSLs are not necessary. Instead, what we have here is a greedy manuever by both teams to profit and line their pockets with extra income from the PSL concept, not use it for it's intended purpose, which is to help defray the costs of construction. If anything, our PSLs should be less than half of what the average PSL is for any single project.
Well consider the stadium cost Woody say 700M I would think that Woody would argue I am entitled to get back my money ASAP so I can repay the NFL etc. I'm sure on the OTH the NYGs would argue the same for there 700M share of the stadium.
Compelling both teams to give a complete accounting of all construction costs, including carrying costs, interest costs, etc. and making them balance that against current income and proposed estimated income from selling "cornerstone" advertising and naming rights and future expanded concession income would at least provide the public with the numbers. This would then either validate why the Giants-Jets need to charge so much or it would expose them as using the PSLs as an excuse to gouge the general NY area public. Not that price-gouging is at all illegal or unheard of, because we all know that businesses are entitiled to do whatever the traffic or market will bear in that regard, but at least they'd have to furnish us with the complete picture and, if nothing else, expose themselves as the greedy price-gouging liars they are by using the "construction costs" (which have been cut in half by the Shared Stadium concept) as an excuse to pile on the profits from the PSLs.
Wow you are one very angry dude over this it appears. I would volunteer a C note towards the class action suit however. Maybe we ought to get those attornies interested who filed the CAS against the NEPs for cheating
Not a bad idea. Seriously, I can picture something like this happening (a CA suit). Somebody out there is pissed off enough to make something of this. It just hasn't happened yet because the teams haven't officially sent out invoices.
The suit by fans would have to be filed against the municipalities that committed public dollars to the project. What did the state get for its investment? What did they promise the people in return for throwing tax dollars at these projects? The fans don't have a direct investment in funding the stadium, but the tax payers do. If the municipalities were misled by the Jets/Giants, the onus is on them to represent their constituency by suing the teams.
The league long ago realized their profit model has little/nothing to do with fans in the stadium. This league has been television driven for over 30 years now. Just watch any NFL Films footage from the 70's. The stadiums are often half empty, but the league thrived. The fact that stadiums have been mostly full for the past twenty years is just gravy. There will be less than 50,000 (my estimate) fans affected by PSLs and high ticket prices. They will join the millions of fans who sit at home completely unaffected. In fact, the fans at home will be impressed with the nice , shiny new facility. It sucks to be a season ticket holder. You are screwed. But the Jets and Giants are private corporations. A ticket to a football game is not a necessity like gasoline or water. They can charge as much as they want just as GM can charge whatever they desire for a Cadillac.
Sorry, I don't see it. This is not baseball, where virtually anyone who is a fan has been to multiple games over their lifetime, and carries around memories of that as part of being a fan. I have been to hundreds of baseball games over my life, and have been to 3 or 4 pro football games. My father has been to hundreds of baseball games over his lifetime and exactly 0 pro football games, yet somehow we've been able to share this without any problems. The NFL is a television league, and with the quality of TV viewing increasing dramatically, I don't see any reason to think that fan loyalty will decrease.
Perfectly said. All I want is a god damm super bowl. They can have port o sans in the hallways and no running water or any food or drinks.. Just give me a super bowl run with all playoff games at home and I will die happy. Just one magical season!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have to agree with this. And the way things are going with the PSLs and ticket prices, the "TV League" thing will only increase. In fact, we'll all wind up viewing it on TV. And it'll be impressive too, with aerial blimp shots of the wonderful-looking stadium with all it's amenities and its half-empty parking lot. People can sit on their couches and imagine how nice it would be to actually go there and witness all the upscale bathrooms, for example, if only they could afford to. Forty (not a measley four) choices of chicken wings! Oh... if only I were able to afford to go there with my kids... "And look! Look at those corporate out-of-towners there, sitting in their perk boxes! Wow, there must be 10,000 0f them there in that stadium that seats 80,000! They must really be enjoying all that extra elbow room and that upscale dining while watching the game on their TV monitors in those air-conditioned boxes! That has to be a blast!" Then eventually, they won't even need to play football in front of a live audience. Who needs any of these fans, really? The two teams can face off in what amounts to an immense indoor TV Studio. Who needs any fans in attendance at all? Canned cheering can be brought in, complete with the Jets chant even, taped 20 years earlier, back when people actually attended games and cheered! And there's no need for fan revenue at all... it all comes from TV ads now. In fact, knock down that joint stadium and sell all the property to condo developers. There's no need to carry all that expense and pay all those taxes. All the revenue can come from non-stadium sources! And no one will even notice the difference! We can run re-runs of former blimp shots of the stadium and the NY skyline... they'll never know! It'll all be a "virtual" experience. And speaking of virtual experience, why not do away with these expensive players too? By then the technology will exist whereby we can create any player we want and put him on the field. Hell, we're doiing it now with the video games, we just need to perfect it. "There goes Clarence Jackson, that new kid for the NY Jets. He just ran the ball back in under 2.6 seconds. Man, what speed." And the crowd at home in front of their TVs sits and cheers! "Man... I just LOVE football!"
I hope these owners get what's coming to them should there be a work stoppage in 2011 or 12 whenever they are saying it's possible. The NFL is so ridiculous with their policies and their attitudes yet Average Joe doesn't give a shit. I promise you that if for one weekend not one person placed a bet on an NFL game their ratings would tumble like no tomorrow yet they continue to hate on Vegas. James Caan swears the TV show Las Vegas went off the air because of the concessions NBC had to make to get Sunday NightFootball.
