So what, those same players voted Jeter the player they would most want to start a team with, in a sports illustrated poll the week before. Look it up, and then tell me how much water this sh*t holds??? It does not fly, the players contradicted themselves, this thread is garbage. This was discussed on sports radio and in the news papers, it is clearly bull sh*t, as one week the players want him to start a team, and the next week they say he is overrated. I would post the links, but they have all expired already, you probably can find the sports illustrated polls if you look. I am not going to waste my time on this again, as it was already exposed to show absolutely nothing but what a joke and contradiction it is. Where have you been???
You can feel free to disagree with the conclusion, but as I posted earlier, this is anything but a contradiction. In fact, it's exactly what you would expect to happen, as is shown by the fact that Alex Rodriguez and David Wright were also at the top of each poll. It's obviously not the same people who think that he's overrated and say they would build a team around him - in fact, one is basically a reaction to the other.
You are the one who brought the Mets up. I merely said it is not surprising that people think a 20 Million dollar singles hitter is overrated.
Maybe, and that seems logical, but the polls do not specify, that two different, sets of players are voting. The source for the polls make it sound like all the players were polled, and for all we know they just vote blindly, or do not even consider their answers. Which is why, they hold no water. Derek Jeter is going to be the first Yankee, with 3000 hits. The first Yankee, the greatest team in all of sports, and Derek Jeter will be the first and only one to have 3000 hits, and every one as a Yankee. Now tell me how his career is over rated, in fact he is ahead or Pete Rose's all time hits lead pace, at the same number of at bats spot Not to say he will stick around to pass Rose, but how could anybody ahead of the all time hits lead pace, more than half way there, be over rated??? Not to mentioned, he captained 4 championship teams, is on a 13 year post season streak, and is as solid as they come in the field. Regardless of what Derek Jeter does the rest of his career, he can never be considered over rated. These polls and this thread is a JOKE!!! Anybody who knows anything about baseball, and does not have an agenda would agree.
Of course, you mean .300 up there, not .500. It's a shame that he got hurt, but that doesn't change how he actually performed, which is all I was talking about. Picking out three at bats in two series where Jeter was pathetic (.193 / .233 / .333 / .566) is just silly - in how many important at bats did he fail miserably in those series? This is precisely the sort of thing that makes some people say Jeter is overrated - fans ignore his failures and note only his successes, even if there are far too many of the former and too few of the latter at a particular time. I never suggested that Jeter has done nothing good in postseasons since 2001, but a drop of 50 points in BA, 65 points in OBP, and 40 points in SLG is a very significant drop in production. You were the one who said that he has had only one bad postseason series (last year), and that's just not true - he's had 5 in his last 11, and they haven't just been bad, they've been horrible. If you can't see why that would make some people feel he's overrated (given the constant "Captain Clutch" references), there's nothing I can do about that.
Let me ask you how you measure a teams greatness throughout history? Would Championships come into play? Because nobody has more that The Yankees. The Yankees are the most winningest team in all of sports, does that sit better, with your bitter orange and blue ass?
Let me ask you how, do you measure a teams greatness throughout history? The Yankees are the most winningest team in all of sports, does that sit better with your bitter orange and blue ass? No surprise it's the only team your boy Willie won with either.
No, it wasn't the same players polled, but there's no reason it would have to be. Even if it was the same 500 players polled at the same time, you could have 50 who think he's the greatest ever, and 50 who think he's overrated (obviously that would apply to a poll of every major leaguer as well). The two sets of answers are not remotely contradictory, and do not make the poll or the answers a joke, and certainly don't make a discussion about it on a message board a joke. What's much more of a joke is your apparent belief that everyone has to agree with you (there are a lot of people who think Franklin Roosevelt was the best President ever, and a lot who think the New Deal was an unconstitutional abuse of power - does that disagreement also make discussion of it a joke?). These are the responses of a set of major league players, who know a hell of a lot more about baseball than anyone on this board ever will, so who are you to decide that they couldn't possibly mean what they answer if they disagree with you? In fact, I would think that most great players are often viewed as overrated towards the end of their careers, since they are no longer as good as people are thinking and remembering, and people are saying that others are overrating their current abilities based on their past performance. That's why I thought that people saying David Wright was overrated was a lot more surprising than people saying Derek Jeter was (and to me clearly reflects the point of view that any well-known player from New York is by definition overrated). Are you really incapable of seeing this?
I could not care less about anybody agreeing with me. If the same set of players voted in both polls, each poll is a total contradiction of the other. Where does it specify that 2 separate sets of players were polled for each question? It doesn't. How can the same set of voters come up with 2 total opposite results. No matter how many voted, the ones who voted him the player they would build a team with would not vote him most over rated, there for he could not be 1 in both, that would be impossible. If the were polling different players, for each question than they should say that, and that would no hold very much water with me either. Obviously both test pools would not be stacked with pro and anti votes in that scenario. I'm sorry but this is why these polls hold little water with me, and how anybody can put faith in them regardless of how the feel about the player is beyond me. The sources do not reveal who is voting, so there is no reason to think that they are different sets of players, they make it sound like it is the same pool of players voting, and odds are they are the same sets. The fact that they come up with to totally opposite results is comical, and I am not the only one who thinks so. I have read similar opinions, on sever forums, blogs and newspapers, plus several radio and TV host got a kick out of it basically laughing it out of any serious consideration of anything. You look at it as you like, as for me it has little to no credibility, and I really don't care, anybody who considers Derek Jeter's career to be over rated, does not have any baseball knowledge I care to hear about
Okay, I'll try one more time then give it up. If 500 people are polled, and 50 say that they would start a team with Jeter, 50 others say that Jeter is overrated, and 400 don't mention his name in answer to either question, how is this in any way a contradiction? They are 100 different people with two different sets of opinions (plus the opinions of the other 400), and, in fact, it's quite reasonable to suppose that the 50 people saying overrated are reacting to the beliefs of the 50 people who are saying they would build a team around him, since they think those people are overrating him. The only way this would be contradictory is if over 50% answered each question that way, but in both cases the overall proportions are quite small (around 10%). These are not contradictory results at all, any more than the fact that some people think Bush is a great president, while others think he's the worst one ever. Do I have to keep pointing out that Jeter, A-Rod and Wright were all in the top 5 of both polls, which (especially considering that they all play in New York) is exactly what you would expect? The fact that people on radio, TV, forums, and blogs don't understand this merely reflects that most people do not understand randomness or polling at all, something that people in my business have known for a long time.
Well I did not see the over all proportion stats on the polls I saw, if in fact the numbers you quoted are accurate, I can see your point. Never the less anybody, who thinks the career of Derek Jeter has been over rated, is really off base in my book. How can you overate a Hall of fame career?
Are you serious??? How can you even post this??? Why don't you take a poll, might as well go ridiculous all the way. You must really be bitter, to be in this much denial.
It was 10% for most overrated and 12% for player you would build a team around. I cannot imagine that many (or maybe any) of the people who said most overrated were talking about his entire career - rather, they were saying they believe that he is very overrated now because he's not as good as he used to be, but some people act like he is.
Why is it denial when you don't bow down to the Yankees? They aren't even a true NY team, they are carpetbaggers from Baltimore.
To be fair...the team WAS supposed to be started in NY until Giants ownership ran them out of town...so they started the team in B-more with every intention of moving the team back to NY once politics was in their favor. They may have started in Bodemo, but they were intended to be a NY team from jump. I don't think it is a stretch to say Real Madrid is the winningest team either...
True enough, but they still started in a different city, with a different name. They are not quite the NY landmarks like the Empire State building Yankee fans play them up to be. And Jeter's career success has nothing to do with the fact he is a 20 million dollar singles hitter.
Obviously, he is not as good right now, he is on pace to his worst year ever. However one season, is not going to make a dent in his career, and his experience is priceless and unparalleled, anybody not considering that is totally dismissing his intangibles, and that is foolish not wise. Also the poll did not say this years most over rated player, so to equate Jeter as the most overrated sounds like it is taking his career into account, and again Jeter and his career will never be considered over rated, he is going to be a first ballot hall of famer. Overrated players don't get such honors Jeter will. I'm not sure who is rating Jeter so high right now, last year was not a good year by his standards, and this year is worse. Sounds to me like some of these players have a complex or some jealousy, again the polls hold little water with me. Some feel Jeter is team starting material, some feel he is overrated, do I really need a poll to tell me absolutely nothing but that there are two very different philosophies and opinions out there. I think not.
Oh my God, how can you even sleep at night. Are you for real, it's not denial because you don't bow, it;s denial because of how ridiculously you are handling yourself on this issue. Everyone of their 26 world series rings says New York on them, every record of those championships say New York. Please get a clue, and stop embarrassing yourself.
