Well said. It's amazing to me how many Jet fans have an outright hatred for one of the few QBs in our history to have given us anything. Like you I just want the team to win regardless of who plays, but as long as a guy is still in green & white I'm on his side.
I also think it's dumb to cut him just for the sake of cutting him. A few things don't make sense about him being a backup QB if he loses the competition though. 1) He has publicly stated that he does not want to be a backup and thinks he's a starter in this league. I wonder if he'll be as classy as he has been in the past if he's riding the bench from day one. I really cannot imagine him acting up, but at some point he's going to have to draw a line for himself isn't he? 2) His salary is much higher than a young guy with growth potential like Simms would be. Granted Simms would have a learning curve but he is a vet with a lot of potential IMO. If we had cap issues that caused us not to sign someone that could help us in an area of need, I'd be upset if Pennys salary caused that non-signing.
For the most part, if Chad doesn't win the job (according to some of the notes from the OTA's and his accuracy problems) and Clemens does, I don't see him making a stink about being a backup. However, I do see, the FO making it ugly by asking Chad to take a pay cut IMO. Simms showed some good things at Tampa Bay, but at this junction, I doubt we get him. Buccs have already cut Bruce Gradkowski, I doubt they cut Simms. As of right now, they haven't settled things with Garcia. Until that happens, I expect Simms to remain a Bucc. Again, if things open up, maybe after June cuts maybe we can see what options we got and how the competition is shaping up. For right now, it's just fodder that's wearing out everybody's keyboards.
He said that in the context of where he was going to go for this year, he wasn't going to voluntarily resign himself to being a backup just because he got benched once. He wanted the chance to be a starter, if not here then somewhere else, and he has the opportunity here. If he doesn't get to start now it's not because he didn't have the chance and he'll have nobody to blame but himself. He's been around long enough to realize that. From the Jets' side of it, they saw nobody better equipped to come in here to A-compete for the job and B-still be useful to Clemens in the event that he didn't win the job. Chad has been here, knows the offense, is respected by the team and handled it well last year. How much would you have paid for a decent backup in 1999 when QB wasn't an issue at all? Your whole season can depend on it, how much is that worth? We're not in cap trouble and Clemens doesn't make that much money, so for this off-season it's a wash. If Clemens takes over and earns a new contract, then you deal with Chad's contract from a position of strength and not one of uncertainty.
I want a Sb. If we can't get one then I want the guy who will be there when we are able to win a Sb to get the most reps possible now. May that be Clemens or Ainge. We will be headed in the right direction when we have a Captain of our offensive ship who can get us to the dance. We can keep Chad and get a win or two in the playoffs now and be further away from the Sb if Kellen or Ainge played now. We need our heir apparent to be preparing for the time when the team is ready to take the next step or we need to find out if we need to get that guy. I don't want him getting on the job training in a playoff game in 2010 that we are supposed to win because the rest of the team is ready to go. A win or two in the post season accomplishes nothing in the long run. We got a win in the playoffs in 06 and it set us back three years because we were under the misguided notion that out team was better than it was and now we are paying the price. We are still rebuilding lets do it the right way for a change.
9 Million to a backup Qb is never a position of strength. We are not going to the Sb so what is the worse that can happen if Sims or Ainge has to play.
It isn't established that he's the backup, that's my whole point. And I don't see how winning playoff games gets you further from the Super Bowl, that makes no sense, the only way into the Super Bowl is to win playoff games. You take your shots when you get them, you never know when you're getting back. I don't get this idea that we should load up for some magical run in 2010 and that's somehow better than getting to the playoffs now. Put all those eggs in that basket and what if that doesn't work out? You want the fan base to wait two more years for your shot in the dark just because it will be someone other than Pennington at QB? That makes no sense at all. Most teams that win the Super Bowl have been to the playoffs a few times first and gained that experience of playing in the post season. The fact that we got there in 2006 is not the reason the team failed in 2007, one has nothing to do with the other.
Just remember the Colts did not get to the Sb until they got a defense and we will not get there until we get a QB. The only thing we will do by leaving Chad in is to toil in mediocrity until we have to tear the team up again. There is no upside at all. The fan base are going to have to wait two or three more years no matter what so what is your point? In two years Chad will be 34. If there mad now imagine how they will be then. I want the team to wait two years because I want the guy behind center to be ready to win a Sb and have the ability to do so. Chad has neither at this point and even most of the starch Cp supporters have admitted as much. You want him to stay in for a shot at a miracle that is not happening instead of building a team that can realistically win with a Good Qb who is prepared. Most teams that win the Sb go to the playoffs improve their weakness and two or three years down the road they have a legit chance to win. Like the Jags and Chargers now. Our Qb weakness will be improved with a New QB. If a honest evaluation was done of that team in 2006 the coaching staff would have realized that we played in four games during the regular season v.s teams over .500 and lost all of them except the pats game that we won in a Monsoon. Chad had 17 T/D and 16 Ints which should have set off warning bells in 2006. I refuse to believe that losing one player off a playoff season like Pete Kendall could wreck a whole offense. We got a real schedule in 2007 like I told you we would this time last year and look what happened. It is not by accident or chance we were 4-12 last year. The team traded away their whole draft last year as if we were one or two players away from being able to take out the Pats and win the Sb. These are facts not speculation. If we take that same mentality now we will be here with the same problems with a new coaching staff come 2010-2011. The Jets play in the afc and you have to be good to get to the Sb not Hot like the Giants were last year. For the record I also think our whole defensive line has to be revamped before we are ready to win and coles Replacement has to be found as well. Coles is one of my favorite Jets but the coard has to be severed with him at some point. Jenkins will be rotating at best in three years.
You mean that swiss cheese Defense that was ranked poorly and struggled all year where teams just ran the ball down their throats and it took the return of Bob Sanders to turn that Defense around come Playoff time? Well, how come that same exact defense which made a HUGE turnaround last year, and was ranked top 10 didn't make it to the Super Bowl? They still had Manning and lost against a Chargers team without LT, and a hurt (mediocre) Rivers at home.
The Key here is there is Bob Sanders and Dwight Freeny and a defense. They will be a legit contender this year. The Colts putting a swiss Cheese defense on field and being happy to get to the playoffs is the same as us trotting out a Qb who can not throw and being happy to Make the playoffs. They fixed their problem with Sanders and Freeny and we will fix our problem by ________?????????? The first step is admitting there is a problem.
That's kind of unfair to say about Colts fans. How many playoff appearances have they had in the last 10 years? A consecutive run like that for that long with Peyton Manning, Reggie Wayne, Harrison, Dwight Freeney and Bob Sanders along the way seems to me like anything short of a Super Bowl is a failure. Compared to the Jets, I'd like to see our team get the confidence that we belong in that league of playoff caliber contenders year-in and year out. You have no argument from me regarding the problem at QB. It's a problem right now because no one knows what the outcome is gonna be come September between the competition. After this season is over, I'd like to see how the team did and how the QB play was, THEN make my opinion on how to go about getting better at the position. If we need a new Franchise QB, then we should look to Draft one, if not, we need to possibly give Clemens a better surrounding cast of receivers, a more explosive running game, and those pass rushing DE's. Like you said, it took Bob Sanders and Dright Freeney for the Colts to win that SB, not just Manning.
The 1999 club was a serious SB contender because we had brought in some very high priced FA talent and Vinny had great physical tools and was playing out of his mind in 98. If we had a backup QB that cost us Chad money, you could guarantee that Curtis Martin and Kevin Mawae aren't on that squad. You can also pretty much guarantee that the 98 team QB by a twice shoulder repaired Pennington isn't close to the contending team that the 98 team was with Vinny playing at a level that Pennington when healthy never came close to.
First of all, my eyes hurt from that. Secondly, it's a given that every team is trying to fix its holes and improve every off-season, whether they won the Super Bowl or went 1-15. They base it on what happened the previous year, but success one year doesn't automatically lead to failure the following year by design. So I don't see how being bad with young players is better than making the playoffs with a mix of young and old players, as we did in 2006.
Way to completely miss the point again, you're on a roll here. :up: My only reason for referencing the 1999 season is to point out how important a backup QB can be to a season. I could have also referenced the 2005 season but that's a less dramatic example. When you look at the situation we have now with two QBs, there is no reason to weaken the team by weakening an important position just because some fans don't like one of the players. If the management thought Pennington was overpaid they would have addressed it, obviously they felt having a good veteran QB is worth the money they are paying him, whether he starts or not. Again, Clemens is making backup money so it doesn't matter. QB is not the place to economize. I love the way people bitch about how cheap the Jets are and at the same time bitch that they are paying a QB too much money. If they had created a weakness at the QB position to save money you guys could at least be somewhat consistent with all your complaining.
Premise: The Jets are weak at QB because we have a veteran with a weak arm to begin with that has been damaged twice and we have a talented QB that is unproven and hasn?t gotten enough work. The Jets will be good to strong at QB if the unproven talent steps up by getting the work and coaching he needs or he won?t in which case the Jets will be weak at QB. Premise: Between the two QB's the Jets are paying elite NFL QB play money. Premise: You reduce the opportunity and likely hood of having outstanding talent around a mediocre QB if you are paying for a top tier game changing QB who isn?t a game changer because of the salary cap. Premise: A mediocre QB can win big in the NFL if surrounded by outstanding talent on both sides of the ball. Premise: You can sign a solid backup who is not as familiar with the system but may have upside potential and pay a much lower price for the mediocre talent putting more funds to use building around that talent increasing the opportunity to surround a mediocre QB with great talent or get surprise upside from a QB with physical tools who has yet blossomed (Vinny in 98 for example). Premise: The best way to get the maximum QB potential out of the talent is to give them the maximum work load in TC. Sharing reps will reduce the valuable time with not only the first unit but the coaching staff. The point of having an over priced veteran backup is he doesn?t require the work to step in. Now of course if your real argument is you think Chad is a great quality NFL QB who is worth the money and should start because he is an elite NFL QB being paid as one than this argument doesn't make sense. It also doesn't make sense to have a QB competition if that is the case.
The problem with your argument is that you assume Pennington is better than <insert QB name here>. That's where the argument falls apart, a lot of people disagree. There's no point in trying to argue this because either you believe Pennington is better or you don't. I know what my opinion is.
The problem with both of these is it's easy to say "<insert QB name here>" or "Vinny in 98" on a message board, but that guy wasn't out there this off-season. So the Jets had to play the hand they were dealt. In a perfect world you can renegotiate a QB's pay based on his last game, or his last season or his last pass, but you can't. Chad makes the money he does because he's won in the NFL and earned it at one point in time. In his case he gave it up and earned it all back a second time. He got it because of the supply/demand of good QBs in football favors the player, as evidenced by the fact that there were no better QBs on the market than the ones we already have. So if you're the Jets and you're trying to win, and there is no upgrade at the most important position on the field, you play the hand you're dealt and you don't downgrade at QB. You get away with it because Clemens hasn't yet earned starter's money on the field. If he does, then you revisit it after he does. Are we paying out more at the position overall than we'd like? Probably, but it's an important position. So Tannenbaum, who is careful with money to veterans as we've seen, made that evaluation. It's not a matter of what I think of Pennington, I don't even care who plays. It's a matter of making the team better or at least not worse. So it makes perfect sense if you can't upgrade, to stay with who you have and play the better guy. That's what they're doing.
If that's the way they want to play it, there is some logic to it. Tannenbaum and Mangini also have a lot to prove. Pennington was over paid because of 3/4 of a good season and the threat of ending negotiations. He was over paid again because his second contract 1st after his rookie deal was so outragous that it would have been to painful for the team to cut him. At this point he is a second tier QB with a third rate arm who at best is a starter on a 4 & 12 team or a backup on a decent team for backup money.
That's your opinion. He's also led the Jets to the playoffs three times, which by NFL QB standards is going to earn you a good contract. During that contract he took a giant risk playing in the playoffs when he should have been in the hospital, risking his career and almost ruining it. Excuse it away all you like, it the Jets didn't think he was at least close to worth it he wouldn't still be here.
He lead us to the playoffs twice. In 04 without Carter having a better winning % with the same team, they don't go to the playoffs. 02 before the injury and 06 after the injury. His contract was signed prior to the 04 season when he lead us to one playoff and one lossing season.
