Great post, Willie. This is something the Chad Fans don't seem to understand. They point to Chad's stats, particularly completion percentage, as "proof" that he gets it done. But Chad cannot and does not lead the team back if it gets down. The reason is quite simple - he cannot alter his game to take game situations into account. When the clock does not permit a dink and dunk approach to getting down the field, and a touchdown is necessary, Chad does not alter his game to take that into account. He came closest in games last year when he would try to throw those short to medium range out patterns, where unfortunately the ball has to go further and more zip than his usual checkdown dumpoff completions, and that is the kind of pass that led to pick sixes. Chad and Brian know Chad's limitations. When the team is in those situations, they know not to stop playing, to not show in their expressions that the game is already lost. But they know it themselves, and after year after year of watching Chad fail to even make a real attempt to win those games by altering his game, I have come to know the game is over, too, even if the clock says there are ten or even more minutes left.
Stats like this: Clemens averaged more yards per attempt (6.1 to 5.8) on short passes (1-10 yards) last season. Pennington, who is supposed to have the weaker arm of the two, averaged more yards per attempt (8.9 to 8.8) on medium passes (11-19 yards), more yards per attempt (11.3 to 8.7) on deep passes (20-29 yards) and more yards per attempt (22.8 to 12.3) on the longest passes (30-plus yards).
It occurred to me after the discussion here yesterday that it's all well and good to discuss the comparisons of Chad and Kellen, but the reason we are concerned enough to do so is largely left unsaid. Why is this almost the only thng Jet fans talk about? Some here argue that the Qb is not that important, and that other parts of the team are not undeserving of attention and hopefully much needed upgrades. We all know the OL was atrocious last year, and hopefully will be improved. But other areas are still of concern, like starting CB opposite Revis. But I think we know a big part of the reason for this focus is anxiety about where this franchise is. THis anxiety takes different forms in the Chad v. Kellen debate, but we are all concerned about the state of the team. Chad Fans are familiar with his performance last year, and know it was not acceptable. They hope, or may even bluster it is a sure thing, that he will "return to form" and play well. But underneath they have to be concerned how likely that is. Meanwhile they make disparaging remarks about Clemens, with certainly at least some justification from time to time, and are of the opinion that the regime running the Jets, the same one they laud when it sticks up for Chad, has so far failed to produce on the roster a Qb who, in their view, comes close to deserving to replace Chad. What does that tell us about their approach here, and the future of this franchise? Those like myself who have given up on Chad know quite well that Clemens has not yet, and may never, shown himself to be a quality Qb. We also know that while it may be too soon to dump him, and that this may have served as justification for not drafting another QB with a high pick, that the franchise at this point does not know who the starting Qb will be. That would be one thing if the choice is between two quality Qb's, but we know we don't have two of them on the roster, and perhaps may not even have one. How could the FO have sat on their hands this past off season, if that ends up being the result? I am sure I am not the only one who would like to be optimistic about the off season moves that were made, hoping they will make the team a contender this year. I don't want to see Tanny and Mangini fail, having to be replaced, and yet again see a new regime come to run the team. But right now it is hard to feel optimistic. The only thing that would rekindle my optimism at this point is that Clemens comes to camp and takes over the job by winning it outright. I will then, however true it is, conclude that the FO and CS had good reason to think that was what would happen, and we can go on from there with our hopes high. Otherwise, this could shape up to be an even more unhappy season than last year was.
While you are looking up stats, perhaps you can find one showing the last time Chad led the team back to a touchdown when the team was down by a touchdown with less than twenty minutes to play.
That's great, but what does it have to do with man arm Clemens averaging more yards on shorter passes, than "girl" arm who averaged more yards on longer passes, and was way more accurate to boot. Tell me this, how many games is Kellen going to lead us back from down a touchdown when the team is down by a touchdown with less than twenty minutes to play, with stats like that??? Stats that fail in comparison on deeper passes than Ole Girl Arm. Way to dodge the issue at hand there, almost as good as a patsy fan with spygate.
The problem that I have is Chad is not even remotely close to being good enough for us Jet fans to even debate his replacement. He is maybe two or three games above 500 and I can not figure out why he is worthy of a debate. The sad thing is when you talk to other people in other cities about Chad they think he is an absolute Joke as a Qb. Only Jet Fans idolize Mediocrity like this.
The problem is if Kellen gets the job because Chad is terrible, and not because he is that much better and pulling away, than we are still screwed. Just because somebody posts stats that show Kellen may not be the Saviour, does not make them a "CHAD FAN" idolizing mediocrity like some here like to depict. Most are Jets fans, who want the team to be as good as possible, right now neither of our QB's are providing an awful lot of reason to believe they will leads us to the promise land. I guess by pointing that out, you must be a "CHAD FAN," my bad.
Does anybody have any insight on this, or do we just look for other bad Chad stats to present, and sweep anything else under the rug. Oh then we can call people stupid Chad fans, while we duck the issues. THE SILENCE IS DEAFENING... Stats like this: Clemens averaged more yards per attempt (6.1 to 5.8) on short passes (1-10 yards) last season. Pennington, who is supposed to have the weaker arm of the two, averaged more yards per attempt (8.9 to 8.8) on medium passes (11-19 yards), more yards per attempt (11.3 to 8.7) on deep passes (20-29 yards) and more yards per attempt (22.8 to 12.3) on the longest passes (30-plus yards).
Neither Chad nor Kellen could look good behind last years mess but Kellen at least showed signs of promise. There is more to the Game than stats. That stupid passer rating stat is a shining example. Kellens first real evaluation comes this year because he will be put into a position to succeed. Chad has proven where he can go with a team and his ceiling has been reached. The bottom line is he will never get us to the Sb no matter who we surround him with so it is time to go another route.
I understand that, but I am not talking about last year. Right now in the OTA's neither QB has looked all that impressive, and as of today, Clemens would get the job by default because Chad is so bad, not because Kellen has bee that much better. That is some scary Sh*t if you ask me, and if this continues, we will know how far we can go with Kel and it may be just as bad or worse. Oh and Stats like this: Clemens averaged more yards per attempt (6.1 to 5.8) on short passes (1-10 yards) last season. Pennington, who is supposed to have the weaker arm of the two, averaged more yards per attempt (8.9 to 8.8) on medium passes (11-19 yards), more yards per attempt (11.3 to 8.7) on deep passes (20-29 yards) and more yards per attempt (22.8 to 12.3) on the longest passes (30-plus yards). Do not exactly support what you are saying, Kel gained more yards from the short pass than Chad, who was way more accurate and gained more yards from longer passes.
You forgot to mention that Clemens was 3-4 with Wallace Wright and Brad Smith as his second and third options while chad was 1-8 straight out of the gate with a dink and dunk offense designed for him. These stats are about as meaningful as the all time passer rating that has Chad ranked ahead of Tom Brady, Brett Farve and Dan Marino All time. Stop looking at stats all the time and use your eyes the man can't throw a fifteen yard out pattern anymore.
That is bull sh*t but what ever you keep telling your self that, and pull other stats out so you can ignore the fact that, Kellen Clemens was not accurate throwing the longer ball, it was more on him than the receivers. Chad gained more yards throwing deeper passes because of accuracy not receivers, pulling out win totals does not change that fact.
What is b**shit? The all time passer stats? Go look at it for yourself and you will find he is ranked higher than all of the above. Kellen was not accurate but once again there is an upside and he can be fairly judged this year by the new line and hopefully healthy receivers. Do you consider Chads 28-32 172 yard great passer rating games productive? Is this good in your eyes? Chad was very accurate in hitting defending Corner backs for pick six game ending interceptions last year. How many games did Coles play in when Kellen was Qb? Im sure Wallace Wright was open down field all year and Kellen just missed him. Did I miss something? Were the Jets not 3-4 when Kellen was Qb and 1-8 when Chad was and the game against the Redskins was lost because of a Cotchery drop in Ot that would have given us a chipshot field goal?
Who is talking about passer rating or all time passer stats??? YOU!!! Read these stats, they are alarming: Stats like this: Clemens averaged more yards per attempt (6.1 to 5.8) on short passes (1-10 yards) last season. Pennington, who is supposed to have the weaker arm of the two, averaged more yards per attempt (8.9 to 8.8) on medium passes (11-19 yards), more yards per attempt (11.3 to 8.7) on deep passes (20-29 yards) and more yards per attempt (22.8 to 12.3) on the longest passes (30-plus yards). You can not blame all of Kellen's woes on the O-line but blame all of Chad's on something else, you can't have it both ways. Why change the subject, the FACTS remain that Kellen Clemens gained more yards from shorter passes than weak arm Chad. Weak arm Chad gained more yards from deeper passes, how is that good??? Sorry but you can not blame everything on the receivers either, the attempts show Kellen was not as accurate, it has more to do with that then receivers. If he was throwing to receivers who were not open, perhaps he was making some bad decisions, but check the clips, Clemens under threw players too. You know what you are right, I'd rather not go through this again, because instead of dealing with the stats at hand, you want to change the subject. I will just say this, Kellen winning the job, because Chad sucks, does not do us any good. Forget last year already, as of right now Kellen would win by default not because he is pulling away from a "girl arm loser." If that continues, guess what we will not be any better with either QB.
If you admit Kellen will win the job because Chad s**ks what are we talking about? If Chad s**ks then our Qb should be Kellen or somebody else. Either way Chad should be taken out of the equation.
I wouldn't be worried about the past with these two QBs... Presently, the reports are Chad is struggling with no defenders on the field, which means Age and Arm are failing him. Clemens, who does need a lot of work, is looking sharp so far and has dedicated himself to trying to better his craft. He may actually prove to be able to at least manage the game in his 3rd year. Forget the argument of last year- things have changed. Last year has no bearing on what is happening on the practice field as we speak.
OK fine, and you are not concerned that despite all this, Kellen Clemens has not been handed the job, and he has not pulled away from "SUCKY CHAD" in the OTA's thus far. You are happy with the fact, that we may end up with one of 2 sucky QB's based on who sucked worse. Chad is so bad, but Kellen has not pulled away, and the only reason he is in the lead is because Chad sucks so bad, not because Kellen is looking good. Please it sounds like you will be fine with that, because all you do is bash Chad, and make excuses and turn a blind eye for Kellen. That sh*t don't fly with me I want more.
Exactly, and read all the reports, Chad looks terrible, and Kellen is still not exactly pulling away, that is alarming to me.
It is worrying, but its only May. When the public can go to TC, and Chad throws the same lame duck- we will be screaming for his head. If Kellen looks like he did last year with the improved line- we will all be screaming for a new franchise QB. Lets pray that someone looks way better than the other guy at the end of August.
