I honestly don't have a real feel for how bad or good Clemens might be. But, if you look at the 33 starting quarterbacks in the NFL last year, this is Clemen's performance: Completion %: 52.0 - Rank 33 Yds/Attempt: 6.12 - Rank 31 QB Rating: 60.9 - Rank 33 (Next lowest ranking was 66.4) Now, you can sit there and come up with excuses out the yin yang, but the fact is statistically he was by far the worst QB in the league. The offensive line this, the offensive line that. Regardless, he simply wasn't very good. On the other hand here are Pennington's numbers: Completion %: 68.8 - Rank 2 Yds/Attempt: 6.79 - Rank 20 QB Rating: 86.1 - Rank 15 Pennington threw for 10 TDs with nine interceptions, while Clemens was five and 10. Now, numbers don't always tell the whole story, but the fact is Pennington was much better than Clemens (even considering the number of wins) and is clearly the better QB at this point. Now can Kellen develop more with a better offensive line and become a potential franchise QB? I don't know. But you can't sugar coat the year he had in 2007. He pretty much sucked.
Kellen Clemens was thrown into an AWFUL situation, LTJF. He had a piss-poor offensive line, an injured receiving corps, and a coach who consistently refused to call plays to use his strengths. For him to be any better than that would be a miracle. People constantly compare Kellen Clemens to Eli Manning, and I have to say I feel that that is a very apropos comparison. Kellen Clemens/Eli Manning Completion %: 52.0/48.2 TD-INT: 5-10/6-9 YPA: 6.12/5.3 Passer Rating: 60.9/55.4 Games: 9/9 Even the great Peyton Manning? He had a negative TD/INT ratio and a passer rating right at 70. But Eli and KC are very similar quarterbacks, in my estimation. They both have very good arms and tended to overthrow their receivers. With more time to throw and receivers who can catch, I will guarantee you that Kellen Clemens is a better quarterback than Chad Pennington.
Chad Fans who denigrate Clemens also refuse to acknowledge the fact that Coles was either out or badly injured almost the whole time Clemens played. That was huge. As we saw McCariens filled in so poorly they got rid of him, and as much as I like Cotch, he did not exactly step it up with Coles off the field, either. We should acknowledge that Cotch is not a bona fide #1 receiver. The atrocious situation at wideout obviously made Clemens's numbers look worse.
Essentially, you're just proving the point that stats mean little in the grand scheme of things for a QB. I believe Clemens went 3-4 as a starter and Penny went 1-8, with both having to deal with all the excuses of the porus OL, a hurt #1 WR, a poor D, no running game, etc. I'm not sugar coating his 2007 because no, he wasn't very good and yes, he's got a very long way to go before being crowned a legit starter in the NFL, never mind a franchise QB. However, I'm not going to be rash and label him a bust before we can actually afford him the luxuries of time in the pocket, a decent running game, etc.
Clemens was not good last season, but the team- in terms of moving the ball and scoring points, was just as good, if not better, with him at QB than Pennington. Pennington's numbers, as usual, were pretty, but he was down right terrible. For a QB in his first year starting, an offense as bad as ours is excusable. For a QB who has been starting since '02, it is absolutely unacceptable. I don't have the numbers with me, but I've broken down the games and posted them before... Pennington's numbers lie. His numbers look good at first glance, but when you break it down, he completed a lower % of his passes 10+ yards down the field than any other starting QB in the first half of the season... I think the number was 5/game. That means Pennington on average completed 5 passes per game that travelled 10 yards in the air. In contrast, Joey Harrington averaged somewhere between 12 and 15 per game. What Pennington has offered is not a passing game. It's a risky running game, and that's why we don't score points with him on the field. Our offense could move the ball slowly, but it could not finish drives with Pennington at QB, and it could not, for its life, run a successful 2 minute drill. In the last season and a half (all of '06+ the playoff game, and all his starts last year) Pennington has had one drive in the last two minutes of a game that resulted in points. That drive resulted in a FG. Again, I don't remember the number exactly, but I believe he led the team to one FG in his last 9-10 attempts at running a 2 minute drill in a close game... That's terrible. He has no excuses. He is a veteran QB. That whether or not he is better than a young QB who struggled immensely in his first half year starting is debatable is indicative of just how bad Pennington has been. If your offense is going to struggle, it had better be with a QB who can learn from the process, and hopefully grow and improve. Pennington is what he is, and it's not enough. Clemens has room to improve. That's all it boils down to.
I wasn't trying to say that Pennington was a great QB last year. What I do believe is that he gives the Jets a better chance of winning now. However bad Pennington was, Clemens was just as bad or worse. Bottom line is that neither one was very good last year. Hopefully, one of them will step up and do the job this year. If not, it's time to find a new QB next year.
A very good point, only further proves my original argument. I love Pennington as a person and as a young QB in 02 before his injury, he was actually a good QB prospect as his arm strength was average as opposed to poor. However, he's not that QB anymore. Not only is he physically different, but he seems to make a lot more mental mistakes now than he ever used to. Clemens' wider range of passes and higher ceiling I feel SHOULD give us a better chance to win now and in the future. If better protection can help him as much as I think it can, he should at the very least be a serviceable starter this year. If the crap side of Clemens shows up and Pennington does win the job, we're in bad shape for '08 and in the future at QB.
Go look at the Greatest Qb's of all time and see what they did their first season. Im sure you will find some HOF players with horrible numbers as well.
Chad gives us a better chance to win what? Not a game against the Pats, Chargers, colts, Jaguars or Steelers in a game in January. What you see is what you get with Chad and at his age he is not going to get any better.
Brett Ratliff is who I'm rooting for to start this season. That way when the two possible starters beat him- i get to complain about them since i didn't want either of them to start. See the logic? I win.
At this point Pennington is clearly a better QB than Clemens. That doesn't mean Clemens can't get better and develop into a good one. Honestly though, I saw very little last year that told me that's the case. Again, no one knows for sure but sitting here making excuses for a terrible season is not going to make the QB any better.
^ What we do know for sure is that Chad is Chad, and he's not getting any better. We're not going to be a SB contender with him at QB unless we magically transform into the 85 Bears or 00 Ravens. Outside of trying to salvage an 8-8 or 9-7 season to give Mangini job security, there is absolutely no reason, with regards to the future of this franchise, that Chad Pennington should be the starting QB in 2008.
There is absolutely nothing clear about your conclusion, other than that you seem to believe it. The problem with stat based analyses of Chad is they use game long stats, stats that are generated over the course of the entire game. For example, not only does a focus on completion percentage not take into account (as a negative) that a completion on third and 7 only went for 3 yards. These stats also do not take into account that if the team is behind with less than 20 minutes to go, taking too much time dinking and dunking it down the field, however many completions go into that, is not getting it done, particularly if the drive ends in a FG, not to mention a punt. But that is also the huge problem with Pennington, one that is so obvious it makes you wonder if those who tout him really watch the games, or if they do do they understand it. Chad cannot bring the team back from behind. He can't lead them to a quick strike. The limited nature of abilities ties him into an approach to the game that can generate misleading stats but does not get it done. His limitations in effect force him into that approach. Yet rather than acknowledge this, Chad Fans tout his stats, and ignore all of the foregoing. They ignore the more wins Clemens lead the team to. Perhaps they even sit there with the Jets down late in the game thinking Pennington has a good chance to lead them to a win. Well I don't look at things the way Chad Fans do. First of all I am a Jet fan, not more of a fan of a single player. I know Chad has not led the team back in years. I know he has extreme limitations. I have seen him continually go to the checkdown, and throw short on third and long too many times to count. I know he is not capable of altering his game to the game circumstances. Hopefully Clemens is the starter and the Jets cut Pennington. There will then soon come a day when the Chad Fans cease this ongoing support of such a mediocre presence. That day will surely come. Hopefully it will be soon.
Chad is a really poor performer at this point in his career. I'm not sold on Clemens, however I have no doubt that there is some upside there. Chad had his last two really good games at the start of the 2006 season. Since then he's been a fairly broken down QB who shows flashes now and then but throws as many picks, often at inopportune time, as TD's and can't lead a game-winning drive late for his life. The facts are that after 2002 Chad was never the same dynamic leader as during his first tour around the league. The injuries have definitely taken their toll over the years, but the book on Chad has become written in bold block letters: weak arm, can't throw over the middle effectively beyond the 7 yard cross, susceptible to dumping the ball off at the earliest signs of pressure, doesn't lead enough TD drives to get a big lead and cannot recover when subjected to a multi-score deficit. There have been a half dozen Jet's starting QB's over the last 20 years that had much stronger arms and better offensive records than Chad has put together. Even Neil O'Donnell was a livelier QB in terms of getting the Jets down the field when they needed to get there as evidenced by the Jets offensive record in his one full season as a starter which was better than anything Chad put up 2002 or otherwise. This despite not having Kevin Mawae or Curtis Martin helping him out that season.
I think the only thing that is clear is that Paul Hackett, for all of his pathetically unimaginative gameplanning, was successful in disguising Chad Pennington's weaknesses through playcalls and schemes. I'm not sure what games you were watching last season, but there are few QBs in the league that I would say Chad is better than. Bradwaysux is right about the play of 2006. People fell back in love with Chad when Shotty started using timing routes and was temporarily able to disguise the weak and intermittent nature of Chad's throwing arm, and once teams figured it out it was time for interceptions and passes easily defended. This is an indictment of Shotty as well as Chad, because neither of them adjusted well when teams figured it out. Clemens has far better tools, that is for sure. Does he have it upstairs when he has time and a full offseason with the first team? Who knows? Certainly the FO doesn't know, so I don't think any fans can make that assertion. We have to find that out. I think this 'competition' was more of a smokescreen to get some team to jump at Ryan rather than a player we had valued more on our board. And I don't think it will last far into training camp, although I could be wrong. I just don't think it's in the team's best interest to keep the QB situation up in the air for very long, and I am almost positive that unless Chad becomes Chad of 2002, which is virtually impossible, Clemens gets the job. For better or worse.
Clemens was 8th in (YPCP) last season according to profootballreference. The offense also performed better under him. And that was without an O-line, and injuries to his best WR.
Wrong maybe some of you guys should record and rewatch games. Beside the toe injury in Washington, all of his injuries have been from CP throwing slow azz airballs and putting LC in danger/concussed. This has nothing to do with KC. He was getting his bell rang during both stints in NY. With CP at Quarterback.
I think it was a smokescreen to 1. Keep Chad around for insurance, 2. Keep chad around for trade bait. I think the FO knows Chad has no chance of starting. yes he's in a competition during training camp. When opening day comes it's KC. It's more to see if CP make the correct decisions on longer/vertical routes in the new system being implimented. Will he dump off knowing the 10 yard route is open. Will he dump off when the TE is blowing down the seam. Will he dump off when the post patterns are open. Just take a look at the new roster moves and tell me if the speed of the team is geared towards CP's strengths or KC's strengths.
