Let google be your friend. I'm sure you will find it at some point. I can't now but this shows just how desperate Smith was and why he settled for garbage and it's simple enough to read into that what he thought about Hughes even though I can't find the direct quote now. http://www.northjersey.com/sports/m...ts_to_complete_a_trade_for_Johan_Santana.html
No no. . . I have intimate relations with Google, and I banged her for a good ten minutes trying to find the quote that you reference because, as someone who followed the whole thing closely, I never remember Smith saying such a thing. What's more, I doubted he WOULD say such a thing, because that would be (a) an admission that he screwed up (which he did and won't admit), and (b) public comment on a trade that didn't happen (which you never see, because it's bad business). That Smith overplayed his hand and overplayed the Yankee and Red Sox competitive bidding is absolutely true. The article you posted not only fails to support this supposed Smith quote, but where it goes through the history of negotiations, it also pretty well rebuts your initial position that the Yankees could have had Santana for Hughes straight-up. That clearly wasn't within the realm of possibilities, and by the time that Smith realized his desperate position, the Yankees had Pettitte in the fold and had moved on in their own minds. In the end, it was better for BOTH the Red Sox and Yankees to pass on the bizarrely overpriced deals for Santana. Makes for a better rivalry now that we each have a crop of new young talent leading us into the next decade.
The quote I read was in a Minnesota newspaper and was on prosportsdaily.com. I'll admit that I can't remember if it was a direct quote of his or if the article referenced somebody in the Twins organization who said he had said that.
As much as I'd like to beat this to death, I'll let you off the hook and drop it. But not without saying straight out that I don't think Smith ever said such a thing. I looked everywhere.
I absolutely agree. It's going to be fun to watch these teams compete for the next decade. Here's a question for you though. Do Sox fans go bezerk over the sky falling when, say, Bucholz has a bad outing? It just seems like Yankees fans get all bent out of shape when Hughes or Kennedy have meltdowns. Do Sox fans do it as well, or are they more understanding that young guys are going to have bumpy roads?
This isn't meant to be a ball-breaking comment, but it's going to come of that way: It's easier to sit through bad outings of young pitchers coming off a championship. I get to fix it in my head that this team came off 2007 and also got to replenish talent with youth. Plus, Lester and Buchholz both seem to be settling into to their roles as full-time starters. The only two that drive me a little nuts are Delcarmen and Daisuke. Delcarmen is up and down, and Daisuke gets too cute at times. Hence his eight-walk victory last night. When he just throws, he's a top-ten pitcher. In May coming off last season, this isn't a good time to measure my angst. Ask me again in August. I could be institutionalized by then. We'll see.
I don't take that as ball-breaking at all. It makes a lot of sense actually. I was wondering more generally though. Here in Yankeeland, especially thanks to the media, when a kid slips, it's like the whole world is collapsing from within. A huge swath of the fandom turn on the guy and give up on him ever being able to perform. Now I admit I get bent out of shape, but usually not with kids and their progression. Actually, the only young guy I don't have patience for is Cano, and that's because he has no patience. If someone can find a way to reign him in, he could be a monster at the plate. I get a lot more ticked off when established players don't perform.
I think part of the problem is that it goes both ways. Hughes is clearly a very talented pitcher who has tremendous potential to be a great pitcher for years. On the other hand, he's still VERY young and has, so far, been sort of injury prone. The problem is that the fans and media in New York made such a big deal out of him, getting so worked up over the idea of trading him for one of the top three pitchers in baseball in his prime, that there is this idea that he's the second coming of Cy Young himself. The bottom line is, he should probably still be at AAA right now for half the year, not trying to learn in the majors. That's what teams like Kansas City and Florida do. They call guys up early because they can't get a veteran to fill in until the kid is ready. What you're seeing now is that expectations are COMPLETELY unrealistic, and he's having trouble living up to them, which is understandable. Kennedy is a slightly different story because I don't think he's all that good to begin with, but the idea is the same. He's been hyped up so much that people are expecting more out of him than he's capable of. As for the Sox prospects, there's a little bit of leeway for various reasons. For Buchholz, it's that he threw a no-hitter already and has pitched some very good games this year. More good than bad. For Ellsbury it's the post-season he had and the fact that his game is exciting. He's inhumanly fast, and that makes even ground balls exciting because he MIGHT beat them out. And he also has been more good than bad. Lester is the one that bothers me the most, because it's all his control, but again, he hasn't been TERRIBLE. Part of the forgiving nature toward him might also, unfortunately, have to do with the fact that he had cancer. There are times though, like Pedroia at the start of the year last year that Sox fans get on young guys. I honestly think a large part of why it hasn't been happening recently is that the kids that have been called up have been getting the job done for the most part.
You are not making a valid point. Kennedy and Hughes are 0-7 or is it 0-8 with a combined era of 8.78. We aren't talking about "a bad outing" here. We are talking about total garbage from day one of the season.
He is only very young in relation to other pitchers today. He is old compared to some of the great pitcher that have come along in the past. Gooden was 18, Nolan Ryan was 17 or 18. How old was Clemens. If I felt like doing the work I'm sure I could find 3 dozen more. There are some good pitchers even today that have been pitching in the big leagues 3 or 4 years and are barely older than Hughes. If you want to say he is immature or not seasoned, that's fine but this notion that he is young is just ridiculous. Just another excuse people are making for why he has sucked.
Clemens was 21 and had a 4.32 ERA his first year. He didn't make 30 starts until he was 23. Ryan pitched 2 games when he was 19, had a 15.00 ERA, went to the minors and didn't come back again until he was 21. He didn't make 30 starts until he was 25. Gooden was a freak talent. More often than not, pitchers can't just be thrown out there at 19 and win 20 games. To think otherwise is stupid. Maybe next time you SHOULD do the work before you say something so uninformed.
Again, Don, go look at Jake Peavy and where he was at age 21. Hughes is young. Just because you are able to name other pitchers who have performed well at a young age does nothing to change the fact that he's younger than 99% of pitchers out there. He's the youngest pitcher in the league this year. You can't get any younger than that. He's better geared for success than many young pitchers in many ways (good head on his shoulders, good command... normally, anyway), but he's still quite young. And really, how is it okay to say he's "immature" or "not seasoned" but not okay to say he's young... when saying he's still young pretty much implies those two qualities? I know it's a ways off, but I have a suggestion for a Halloween costume for you: :smile:
Andy was great tonight. I don't think Girardi should have pulled him. It was obvious Andy wasn't happy about it. Farnsworth was shut down again. Joba next inning. The offense is playing a little better. While the scoreboard doesn't show it, they swung the bat pretty well tonight. Anyway, even though I know he's not really deserving, I made Jose Molina my write-in on the All-Star ballot today. I adore this guy. I'm actually thinking it might be time for Jorge to learn to play first.
Now maybe the idiots like Mike and the Mad Dog will realize Joba doesn't have super powers that will go away when he moves into the rotation.
