But did you notice how having a quality start has made it really, really hard for even a craptastic pen to screw up? Joba didn't come in to "save" this game. And the Yanks still have a two-run lead. Imagine if you weren't counting on someone of Moose's declining talent to provide those kinds of starts for your crappy pen. Imagine if you had a guy like Joba in the rotation, providing more of those excellent starts to rest a bullpen. Imagine how much more effective even the crappiest bullpen can be when they're not being overworked.
Good game. The pen is disappointing, but Moose pitched well, Jorge had a great game, Mo got 5 outs, and the offense generated runs. Hopefully this is a sign of things to come.
You are assuming Joba will also be lights out as a starter and that is a big assumption and in the meantime while he prepares to be a starter we won't have him pitching at all for a while which will really hurt this team. They are doing the right thing by keeping him in the pen and they should all year long.
Exactly and that is why I will be absolutely shocked if you see him starting this year. They say he would have to go back to the minors for at least a month to stretch him out to start. That would mean a month where he is neither in the pen or the rotation. The only way I can see that happening is if they get more pitching before he went back down.
No, I am not assuming he will be "lights out." I'm just assuming he'll be able to put up a start like the one Mussina did last night more often than Mussina himself would be able to... or whomever. I'm assuming that Joba will outperform the worst pitcher in the rotation (be it Moose, Kennedy, or Hughes). Secondly, stretching Joba out is a 2-3 week period in AAA. He'll miss up to fifteen games... maybe less if they do it over the All Star Break. Of those games, he would have pitched out the pen in maybe ten (on the very high side). Is he the difference between winning and losing each and every one of those games? Of course not. And whatever the Yanks lose from him during that time out would be more than made up with him in the rotation. Not to mention that the Yanks could choose (although I don't know if they will) to stretch him out with the club, letting him pitch 2-3 innings from the pen every few days, eventually bringing him in to start on limited pitch counts. It limits the managerial flexibility more than sending him down would, but you're still getting some value out of him at the big league level, even if you can't leverage it optimally. But here's the numero uno reason why you don't keep him in the pen all year, though: if he stays in the pen, we'll be facing the same 140-150 innings cap that he's facing this year. If Joba is going to move to the rotation, you want him to reach 140-150 this year, so he can pitch 170-180 next year. He won't reach that staying in the bullpen. Who is this "they" and where did they say it? All I've heard is a two to three week period. Not "at least a month."
Very good point. Unless you truly believe that Joba has zero potential as a starter, you have to assume he'll pitch better in the rotation than probably all three of those guys early in his starting career. I doubt they bring him along with the pro club. Losing him for 2-3 weeks shouldn't be that big a deal though. What's going on down in Scranton right now? I thought I've seen that guys like Igawa were coming along nicely. Also, Albajadejo should be up here too. Is Ramirez still with the pro club, or did they ship him back too? We have pen talent, we just haven't had the leads to really utilize it until the past couple games. When this team starts scoring runs like the past couple games regularly, people are going to calm down about the pen. Very good point. At some point his innings have to increase, otherwise you may as well resign yourself to making Joba the setup man for now, then the closer in 3 years. Personally, I don't want that. He's quoting that bastion of baseball genius, Michael Kay, again.
strappy, I never said a losing season. I believe I said "long season" 4, 5 games over .500 in yankee land is a long season.
Cashman said a month at least in an article I read yesterday. Of course he may have an agenda with that.
The only way Joba spends a month down in the minors getting ready to join the rotation is if Hughes and Kennedy start pitching to their potential, Moose keeps pitching like he has the past couple starts, and the pen settles down. Otherwise he'll get 3 starts in Scranton, tops.
He's on an innings limitation either way. he can affect more games for us this year in this role. if he had started the year as a starter I would have saod keep him there, it doesn't make any sense to convert him into a starter in the middle of the season and now you want to rush him by doing it over a 2-3 week period? They would be jeopardizing the future of Joba. Just leave him in the pen for this year and let him start next year.
this conversion method has been used effectively in situations such as Johan Santana and Chad Billingsley to limit innngs. trust me, cashman knows what hes doing.
Exactly. Two to three weeks is not "rushing" the conversion. You stretch a pitcher out over anywhere from two to four starts (depending on whether they're more of a one-inning pitcher or a long man). Two innings > three innings > four innings > five innings. And it's easy to have the two-inning stint at the beginning of the process come with the big league club. I'd like to know how "it doesn't make any sense" to convert him mid-season when you have to get him to 140 innings. It more than just "makes sense"... it's the only way to get him there.
It just doesn't make sense to play around w/ this guy's career. If he's going to be converted this yera I'd rather they take their time w/ him, if he has to spend 6 weeks in the minors that's fine. I'd rather miss the playfofs this year than ruin what could be a great pitcher for us. I think it's silly to convert him in the middle of the year espcially since it's more of a panic move b/c the other young guys aren't pitching well. Give them some time to turn it around, leave Joba alone this year. Santana started when he came up in '02 then went back and forth. It's easier to relieve after starting than start after relieving.
Actually, if the Yankees are in a position where they can afford the risk, I can see Joba getting a few 2.1, or 2.2 inning stints before heading down. Then he'd only have to make a long relief appearance, two starts, and he'd back with the pro club, ready to give 6-7 innings in the rotation. (BTW: I hate that .1, .2 notation to signify thirds of innings. It's totally wrong, mathematically speaking. Okay, enough of that rant.)
true. but if its done properly, there should be no injury risk. lets remember that joba has only been a releiver for less than a year. it shouldnt be a difficult transition for him.
This is really a great idea. I'm still trying to figure out why it wouldn't work. "The assumption out there seems to be that the Yanks would have to send him down to the Minors for a few starts, to stretch him out. During this time—presumably at least three starts, a length of 15 days—he would of course not be in the Yankee bullpen. Despite some promising signs, the bullpen is still in desperate need of a reliable bridge to Mo. So why not stretch him out in the bigs? The Yanks are not going to a six-man rotation, so Joba is going to take someone's job. A starter is going to the bullpen. Why not use that sixth starter to help transition Joba? Call it a "five-plus" rotation—one where Joba starts and goes three innings or more and starter #6 knows he's coming in as long relief on days that Joba starts. Incidentally, I think starter #6 is Mike Mussina. " http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...ut-Joba-Chamberlain-in-the-Big-Leagues-220408
