I posted this in another thread...but I think it needs its own: You can't tell us to stop comparing Vernon Gholston to the NFL's stars and when I know one of the main reasons you all want Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie is because of his last name. Also, the disappearing in games, and workout warrior knocks on Gholston are pure bullshit. Chris Long didn't get in the backfield EVERY time for the Cav's defense either, but you don't see people calling him invisible...because he's a HIGH motor guy. Long is the better prospect in my mind, but Gholston gets the job done too. Rodgers-Cromartie played for a mediocre I-AA team at TSU...and he was mediocre on that team as a corner. He wasn't a dominant, scary player. He was just okay. Teams weren't afraid to throw at him. Teams might have been afraid to punt him the ball because he's dangerous in the return game, but he wasn't a shutdown guy in a lower level division of college ball. This is in I-AA! ...and he was more of a workout warrior than Gholston at the combine. DRC had an outstanding Senior Bowl week and game...that's IT. Rodgers-Cromartie doesn't have more upside than a Darren McFadden, a Chris Long, or even a Mike Mamula-esque Vernon Gholston. They WERE dominant at the HIGHEST level of college football. They have more ability to shine at the NFL level. In fact, he has the most bust potential out of anyone in this draft, because some team will take him incredibly too high and IF THIS EVOLUTION EVEN HAPPENS it will take him at least two seasons to change from a I-AA corner to an NFL corner. I don't care what he 40 time was, or what his measurables are: You can't take a I-AA player in the Top 10.
Jerry Rice played I-AA, but I understand your point. Vernon Gholston had the same amount of sacks as Chris Long did last season, and he did it against better competition, but nobody says Chris Long was inconsistent or took plays off. And people saying they would rather have DRC instead of Gholston have no idea what they are talking about.
Jerry Rice wasn't a top 10 pick, and during his time...and probably still today is the most dominant offensive player EVER in I-AA. Also, Terrell Owens and Randy Moss both played at the I-AA level and they have had stellar NFL careers. I'm not trying to knock I-AA guys, but I just don't see what's so special about Rodgers-Cromartie.
I agree with you, DRC has shot up out of nowhere and I like to get my Secondary players from big colleges since they are tested more often and they have faced the best of the best. Thats why I dont want McKelvin OR DRC. Can you imagine a D-IAA guy getting picked by New York....The amount of pressure would be nothing that this kid would have ever expected. Revis had at least played in packed stadiums like Louisville and West Virgina, but I feel DRC or McKelvin CAN produce but they are still very raw and it will take 1-2 years for them to show that potential and in a town like this....Its everyone wanting results right away. Look at D'Brick, he has a rough 2nd year and everyone labels him as a bust. Same as his 1st year, just they werent as hard on him because we went to the postseason.
I disagree. DRC had an outstanding combine, workout and Senior Bowl. He also rose because of his height 6'1 and 40 time. The position he plays is a high priority in the NFL, which is why he is talked about in the top 10. He is always talked about as a top 2 corner and I believe he is. The kidney condition might hold him back but he is a fluid and fast athlete.
I like DRC.......but since the kidney condition was made known, I would not have him in the top ten. I still believe he has more potential than McKelvin, but their is a risk with DRC.
Mr. Electric You rant about people complaining about the downside of Long, Gholston, McFadden and the irony is that none of them may be available when we select at 6. The draft is largely based on what scouts perceive. Do you have the time to dedicate yourself to watching hours and hours of tape of Cromartie to be able to evaluate him in such a way that he will take two years to develop? I don't have the time either. I think we can expect 2 years of development in the case of many of these players because it lacks the truly elite talent. How many defensive players come in and truly make an impact in the first year? Not so many. How can you elucidate bust potential? There are no sure-fire things in the draft. We can harp on big game performance or workout warrior or whatever. Heres the catcher, I highly doubt we draft Cromartie. Lets just hope we aren't staring at a draft board without Gholston, McFadden or Long. Nonetheless I trust the Tangini, if they can do anything, its successfully draft players.
This type of post is the reason why I decided to write this. Rodgers-Cromartie DID have an outstanding combine, workout, and Senior Bowl. I said that in my post. He did rise because of his measurables, and 40 time. I said that too. THESE ARE THE ONLY REASONS HE'S RATED SO HIGH. He wasn't a dominant player in at a lower level of competition. That is one reason too many for me to pass on this guy. In order to be a top 10 pick, you should dominate at HIGH level...Rodgers-Cromartie couldn't do this in I-AA. Sure, he's explosive with the ball in his hands...but I'd like to see him run around TOP talent, not just I-AA talent. The position he plays is a high priority, but I don't know if he's corner that teams need. If he is able to adapt to the NFL's speed, it will take him at least two years to help out a team.
If none of those players are available at pick 6, I still don't want Rodgers-Cromartie. He's too much of a risk being a decent I-AA corner. At least Long, McFadden, and Gholston played against this "elite" talent that you speak of. Rodgers-Cromartie plays against a bunch of guys that couldn't hold on to most I-A fourth string receiver's jocks. Usually when a defensive player is drafted HIGH in the first round, he's expected to make an impact. Haloti Ngata, Mario Williams, and Patrick Willis are three prime examples. I can also use our very own Darrelle Revis as an example. This kid came in, won the starting job, and shattered his expectations. He played against Big East I-A talent in college. All of these kids played against I-A talent, but not Rodgers-Cromartie.
I do understand what you are saying. He is the most likely to be a bust, but also has potential to be very good. He's very risky. Everything we've seen has made me believe he will be a good Cb tho. I wouldn't spend top 10 money on him because of the risk in a bust, however, his size is intriguing. He's tall, long arms, very fast, and his senior bowl against top competition was great. I think the most important thing I saw out of him at the combine were his position drills. This kid can move his hips very well, and his footwork is really good. He couldn't have had too many bad games on film if scouts found him out of a 1-AA school. And I highly dount they looked at him because of his name.
I agree that he might have a longer adjustment period, but he'll be fine. On paper maybe the second or third best athlete in the draft. Remember, McElvin went to Troy, which is better than DRC's school, but is not exactly USC or Ohio State(also has better hands than Leodis). He ran around top talent in the senior bowl, just didn't every week. He can start out as a nickel until he learns what he is doing(just like his cousin did). I don't think he'll last past pick #20 even with one kidney. He needs to get stronger. http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/nfl/specials/draft/2008/video/ He was the highest rated DB on the Cowboys board.He was highly rated by tons of guys who watch film and game tape for a living including Mayock, Kirwan, Scouts Inc., Don Banks, Kiper and Scott Wright. So, um, they must just love his last name.
Learn to read. I said that ONE of the reasons people on this board are so in love with him is because of his last name and/or his cousin's production. It took Antonio, who shined against great competion at FSU, two seasons to get adapted into the NFL, but the Chargers didn't have a huge need at the corner position. San Diego let him take it easy and learn the game because he was coming off an ACL injury. He was a threat in the return game as a rookie, but not much more. He wasn't a top 10 pick either...he was the 19th pick. The "draft gurus" are wrong a lot of time. They put way too much stock into the combine. Mayock had Chris Houston, CB out of Arkansas, as his 11th ranked player in last year's draft. He was drafted in the second round. The draft analysts have no say in opinion. Team scouts are all that matters, and we don't know what they think. So um, why don't you go and make another completely un-realistic mock draft? It's always a good idea to reach for a wide receiver because he played safety in high school...
Let me start by saying that I completely agree with the first half of the initial post. The negativity surrounding Vernon Gholston on this board is ridiculous, I've said it before, and I'll continue to say it. It happens every single year, people start getting false ideas in their heads and they refuse to let them go. Like the idea that Gholston disappears from games, it implies that other guys are dominating every single second of every game they've ever played. Hell, if Gholston disappears, I can imagine how these people must see the prospects slated for Rd 2 and on. However, I have to disagree with the negative comments about Rodgers-Cromartie as well. First and foremost, the idea that he was anything less than great while he was at Tennessee State. As far as I know, he had 17 pass breakups over his last two years with eight interceptions, was one of the best return men in the nation, and was named an All American. The fact that he was so good at this level was the reason that people were starting to notice him during the season, and why people thought so highly of him coming into the offseason. Was he a first rounder at that point? Nope, but he put himself in the position to be with some great numbers/workouts. What he went on to do in this offseason is one of the most impressive performances I've seen from a prospect in some time. He played great all Senior Bowl week, stepped up against his competition, and went into the game and was named MVP. Then, at the combine he stepped up further, running some great times, and showing the skills that make people think he's a future all pro. In my mind he did nothing different than anybody else as far as rising up the boards go. Especially when you talk about the cornerback position, guys rise and fall very, very fast, and many times that's between the end of the year and the draft. The kid played 44 games in his career, has a ton of starting/playing experience, and comes in with the edge of having been depended upon his entire career. Not to mention, when you talk about being the total package as a cornerback, he's got it. Blazingly fast in the open field, great coverage skills, elite closing speed, ball skills, and fearless in run support. Factor in that he's been developing on the fly having only playes football for 5 years, and I'm really not concerned when people say he's still got a ways to go before he's at his peak. About the kidney issue, it's not really a huge issue. He has one kidney. If something happens to that kidney, then obviously he's in trouble. If something happened to a kidney of a player with two, he's in trouble, too.
That reach reciever just went in the second round of the mock draft on NFLDRAFTCOUNTDOWN.COM.He was listed as a good TALL reciever(which you said he wasn't)I had him as a 3rd rounder. As for time to adapt, maybe you forget, but we set a new precedent by making Revis sign a 6 year rookie contract. I doubt we would draft another corner without doing the same. A 2 year adaptation process under those circumstances is not a big deal. Draft gurus can be wrong, but can ALL of them be wrong? You must have the worst breath in your school, because you talk out of your ass alot. http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/profile.php?pyid=72974. BTW here is some PROOF of him DOMINATING in college. Here is the NFLDC link on the reciever look for the Steelers.http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/sub/mockdraftround2.html
Not to change the subject of this thread.........I've been one of the people on this board concerned about Mr. Gholston. First, I've never stated Gholston was a bad football player, when he's on his game, he's a monster, one of the best. There is no question about his numbers, especially against decent teams...Michigan, Wisconsin etc. But then Gholston falls asleep against Bowling Green, Akron type teams.......IMO, that tells me he doesn't have that burning desire, fire that you need to succeed in the NFL. The issues I have with Gholston is his desire to get better, inconsistent play and his love of Football. GH, you know that I live in Columbus and have seen Gholston's entire career. It is very distrubing to me to watch Gholston give up on a play or jog when the play is directed away from him. I have concern's about his desire and desire means everything in the game of Football. If Ghoston had the Desire of a James Laurinitis or Malcom Jenkins he would be a LOCK DOWN #1 pick.
Gholston def loves the game. He works hard on the field, works hard to keep himself in shape and never has had any off the field trouble. He hasnt been like Merriman or anything, who used steroids I believe during the combine. As for falling asleep against those teams, maybe it was the fact that the other guys were able to abuse weaker talent while Gholston couldent be able to put up monster stats like he did against the stronger colleges. I watched alot of James games this year and he was so dissapointing and he expected to do so much more. Luckily for him, he realized hes far from ready for the NFL and had elected to stay for the extra year because he absolutely needs it. The only time where you wouldent hear Gholston's number called is when he gets double teamed. Thats how good he is, he gets 2 men on him due to his physical strength and intensity. But some fans feel that because they dont hear his name or number, that he isnt attempting to provide pressure or make an impact in the game which I feel isnt fair.
Baker....I'm sorry we agree to disagree. I've sat in the Stands at the Horseshoe, I've seen every game VG has played ....no one on this board can say that!! Saying..." he works hard on the field" is anything but the truth. Gholston gives up on plays...that's a fact, I've seen it with my own 2 eyes. When Gholston is focused, he's a terror, but watching his entire body of work he loses his drive.
QFTMFT. I don't get why people question Gholston's desire...the guys stated that he wants to win DPOY and be an All Pro...how is that not showing desire?
You and I have been around the block on this one already. I have seen it first hand.....nuff said on my part. Believe what you want to believe!!!
Uh huh...sounds like you just really, really don't like Gholston... How does a guy who led Ohio friggin State in sacks, set the single season school record in sacks, and did it with only like 5 years experience in football not show desire? How does a guy who states that his ultimate goal is to be an elite player not showing desire? The guy has an elite combine...and then follows it up with an even better pro day...and he lacks desire?
