I dont think anyone claimed CP to beat out all the good teams. My only argument is that CP is not done yet. He has 2-3 good yrs left in him. He is better than KC at this time in their careers. KC might be good but he is'nt better than CP yet. And no, there are no fictitious scenarios to keep Chad. There are obvious reasons to keep him as a starter...See next post of mine...
I must agree that you put alot of thinking into this one. Lets talk about KC first.....and this time with his confidence and leadership value lower than before. Third year starter stuggles again because of above. At the end of the season you still have no idea if he has what it takes to lead the team to success ??? Is he gonna start crying and saying "this is not fair coach, you told me I will start. You hurt my feeling and now I cant perform cuz Im like a little girl who just lost its doll...! Thats what you are literally saying. Did u see Derek Anderson play last year? He knows that Brady Quinn is right behind him and that Quinn will remain a Brown for some time due to his contract. If he makes a string of mistakes, Brady will take over. Guess what? Derek produced awesome numbers with decent results too. He did'nt cry like a girl thinking Brady is behind me and he is the future no matter how I play...or did he? KC should play like that when given a chance. And about your exceptions, they are pretty biased. Exception A is making it sound like KC is a big time bust which he may not be. Exception B, no team gives up a season before it starts. Thats why the off season is for...Exception C, no one is drafting a QB at 6. But those are simply your exceptions and are worse case scenarios. I would like to add exception D in there... EXCEPTION D We hold QB competition and Chad nails while KC sucks. KC starts 4 preseason games and faces starting Ds, where as CP faces second string defenses...End result? KC 4-6 ints. CP 1int. I'll put my money on that one...!
Let me give ya'll a possible scenario... KC wins the competition and CP gets traded before the Wk1 like most of the 'Chad haters' want. KC gets sacked by NE and is hurt for the rest of the season...Guess who takes the reigns...maybe Tui, maybe Flacco/Brohm or maybe Brad Smith. How good is this team going to be? CP can not be a backup. The money he will be making, makes him ineligible to be a back up. He will not renegotiate his contract 3rd time in 4 yrs. Players bitch about being underpaid. CP renegotiates his contract twice and is asked for third time. Guess what he's gonna say...Gimme my remaining guaranteed 12M bucks and I'm out of here. Im not renegotiating...Whether we like it or not, CP will start. QB competition is there to keep CP on his toe and see maybe KC has improved dramatically....once again that word is DRAMATICALLY.
New England, good example. Number 1 offense, top 5 defense, and arguably the best QB in the league. They still fell short. It's not practical to stand pat with a bad QB situation just because the rest of the team isn't up to snuff. If there's a QB you like you take him, then you have him for when everything else falls into place...if it ever does. Give me a good reason not to want an upgrade at the position, I'm all ears.
Well first reason not to upgrade at this time would bring in the age factor. You bring in a rookie who has to pay his dues and lets say he comes around in 2-3 years . Now we have Coles who would be about done, 2 linemen who would be close to bein done. Bubba Franks who is not a big player in the equation but a threat inside the 20 just the same for at least the next 2 years. Would be done. IMHO the best chance we have to win is with the Qb's we have now. Last year with no line and no running game both Qb's were forced to try and make plays. Both throw in questionable situations. with bad results Would they have done the same thing with protection and a small lead????? That remains to be seen. I look at years past and it seems there have been teams that win with mediocre Qb's and great ones. But in almost all the winning teams there was a top 3 defense and a top 3 line. The Dilfers and the Mcmahons willl never be known as great Qb's but they did enough to win the game. Would we have a better chance of being a better team with a Qb upgrade ?? No doubt. Can a veteran step in and pick up our offense right off the bat? Queationable at best. Do we have the time to bring in a rookie and have him start from scratch? Personally I dont think so with our current roster. I think we had to many other problems that needed to be addressed in the offseason ...Which we have done. I think we are seviceable at the Qb. position at best and that will have to do for now. Hell people were ready to hang Eli till he threw up a prayer that stuck to his guys helmet. Without the Giant defense and that catch he would not be viewed as the scond coming as he is now. And upon further review of your post I do agree if their is a Qb you like you take him....provided he will fit into the present system we have quickly.
Not for nothing but the present offensive system kinda blows. Part of that is due to predictability, and Pennington makes it even worse. Sure they were limited with what they could do last season, but a Chad Pennington game plan is a Chad Pennington game plan. Serviceable at QB, I can agree on that. Serviceable doesn't cut it though, and thats my main point. If every player on the team was serviceable we'd be a terrible football team. No matter how much anyone tries to downplay it QB is a very important part of the team. We need an upgrade just like we need OL and DL help. It's easier to get help in those areas then it is at QB, so were left with the draft. As hard as it is to find a top tier QB I don't want too see the team stand pat and be content with what they have. The Jets drafted Clemens to replace Chad Pennington. You don't use a 2nd rounder on a back-up. If Pennington starts again this season then Clemens is finished in my mind. That would be a pretty big set back considering he was the guy waiting in the wings. Considering the Jets have worked out the top 4 QB's in this coming draft and we've already been told that there will be a QB competition, I'm leaning towards the idea that Clemens might not pan out. If thats the case, then the sooner we make moves to fix the problem the sooner it will be fixed. Maybe they really are content with the QB situation, who knows. We should find out come draft time.
What part of "Pennington won't be traded" don't you guys understand? This thread has taken on a life of it's own. Are we destined to keep seeing it until September? It should at least be moved to the bullshit category for starters.
NDmick, I don't know if i'm embarrassed or flattered by your discovery. But, anyway, there's no question that there are two schools of thought on quarterbacks -- some folks don't like the undisciplined free-lancers that will carelessly fling six INTs just to get one TD (like Brett in a lot of games over the years -- he went "crazy" for example in the first Dallas game this past year). These guys prefer QBs who hold their fire to take advantage of every thing the coaches learn during the game so that they can make it count. I'm sure a lot of guys have heard of the fact that an OC will take two or three quarters to set up certain plays that he knows they can only run a single time. When that is is determined by him and the QB. There are other folks that believe in the mystic power of their Elway and sincerely believe that his dominating overwhelming physical talent will carry them to victory when all else is lost. I tend to fall in the first category -- we had some gunslingers in high school, and it was a relief to get in a college program where the QB didn't have to carry the whole show by himself but was showcased at the right time during the game. Apart from that, it is very hard to run a successful two minute drill if your OL and your running game doesn't scare or move the defense off their first move. Also, you have to have two or three things you have made work in the game if you are going to orchestrate a march down the field when there is little time left. Then again, there's the fact that your defense has to be stout in the 4th -- Washington just brought in three tight ends and blasted our defense off the ball again and again, and the NYJ just never got a chance to run a 2 minute or even a 1 minute offense. Everyone wants their quarterback to lead the team, but the weapons and the tactics that he has to work with have to succeed, and if the team has not set them up properly or executed them poorly, then the 2 minute drill is going to be as dismally unsuccessful as the rest of the game was. 07.
The thing is if Chad is not done then the Jets are done for the next 2-3 years until we draft another Qb and train him in our system. From what I saw last year his record was better and since he had less to work with because Coles was hurt in a few of his games he showed more than Chad. He has upside where Chad has none. What is Chad's lifetime record? Is he still over 500 life time? If Chad continues to start this thread will go on for the next three years.
Obviously the CS has designated the LG to be the leader of the O. Faneca will lead us on our 90 yard 1:45 second drives 4.5 yards at a time.
I think a lot of Chad's problem this year was the OL and that high ankle sprain early on. I think that Kellen will eventually get as comfortably smart about the BS offense as Chad and his superior physical skills will take over -- he just has to stop thinking so much. I feel as if the NYJ CS will draft a QB in the later rounds instead of bringing in another retread at No. 3. A fierce open ongoing competition will be the order of the day. And I think that Mangini and co. are going to foment fierce open ongoing competitions for as many positions on this team as they can. I believe the CS has a QB point of view similar to this. I also think that the NYJ CS and FO realized that the OL is inferior and the DL is not up to snuff and know that they have to fix these serious problems first before any skill player upgrade is practicable. I'm very happy with what they've done so far, and I am hopeful that they will have a great draft.
If Kellen struggles this year we are in the Tebow sweepstakes next year and that is that. If Chad plays this year we are in that sweepstakes anyway. This is Kellens chance to prove if he can or can not make it in the league. Either he steps up or gets replaced as well. Derek Anderson started to play well when there was no QB controversy like in previous years. He had nothing to lose and was lose and it showed. No team does give up a season before it starts but if Kellen is not behind Center this and next season are as good as done until the heir apparent can get behind Center. The NYJ's have no chance at a championship with Chad at the reigns so the season are effectively over. We are playing to be mediocre at best. I will put money on your Qb Competiton scenario as well. Chad will get coddled like he did last training camp and still play bad and be named the starter. If Chad is named the starter he should start All 16 games next year no matter what our record is. If it takes us going 3-13 for the cs and fans to finally get it then so be it. Either way this disaster has to end.
But if the CS is right with their moves this year, then the running game will completely transform this offense. It's predictability will vanish and all QBs, RBs, and wide-outs will flourish. The running game's pre-eminence is the key to this though.
If all of the above happens and we are in the Playoffs in Jan and have to face a combination of Ne, Indy, Jac, Sd, Cle, Pitt and the surprise team of 08 what will the end result be? In your opinion do you see any scenario where we can go through three of those teams three weeks in a row and our defense hold them to under the 13 points needed to win with a Qb that manages a game? We can have all-pro's at every position and at some point the man under center will have to throw the ball. Shall I say throw the ball when the defense knows he will have to throw the ball. No play action to disguise shortcoming and no Rb to bail you out. Do you really think the NyJ's have a team that can dictate the tempo of the game to any of the above mentioned teams come playoff time. What happens if we get down 14-0 to any of those teams going into the second half? No matter what the other players do this year on offense the end result will be the same when it matters and it all comes down to the man behind center not being able to step up when it matters. It has happened before and it will happen again.
I would say that if all happens as you have posited here, then the QB (whoever he is by then) will have gone through many trials by fire successfully. Otherwise the CS would have replaced him early on. I think that after an entire successful season with a successful OL and therefore a successful running game, and therefore a sound portfolio of offensive alternatives with which to confound and defeat the defense -- we should be in pretty good shape.
We had this scenario in 02,04 and 06 and what was the end result? The Qb had to throw and he ________! I will let you fill in the blank.
Clemens was better than Chad last year in terms of effectiveness. His ability to run the 2 minute drill and come from behind, pushes his ability to lead the team to a victory ahead of Chad who was completely ineffectual in all areas of offense ESPECIALLY the two minute drill and he is INCAPABLE of coming back from a deficit. He PROVED that last year. There is nothing good long tem that can come from Chad starting, only bad. And short term, there is just no reason to expect anything from CHad either. Kellen is already a BETTER QB, and a better short and long term option than Chad.
Hey, if you're right, then Kellen should win this open competition fair and square. More power to him.
