You guys are too fixated on the skill players. The NYJ are long time losers at the line of scrimmage. We need to focus on that until we have mastered the problem and it has gone away forever. This line of scrimmage issue is not a single FA season or a new draft pick solution. This line of scrimmage issue is an entire cultural and strategic campaign switch. It colors how the entire team plays all the time. It can't be emphasized enough.
I'm pretty sure he would cover Pennington in honey, nail him to a cross in the middle of a bee farm. :smile:
This is what I stated when Chad was finally benched last year. What happened to the 2007 Jets was not Chad's fault alone but it is his time to go. The first thing I would do is tell Chad if he wants to stay he has to restructure to be the backup Qb and mentor Clemens. I would have also gone out and signed the best Qb coach in the business. If Kellen does not show promise this year then it's back to the 09 draft to find our savior yet again. Even if Chad starts we have to draft our future savior so that is a moot point. If Chad did not want to accept a backup role I would try and trade him or release him. He has acted with class over the last few years so I would try to get a win win situation for him and the team. I would have tried to sign Faneca first and foremost even if I had to overspend. That is what we did and also another lineman as well. Granted this is what I would have done before the F/A season and the Jets did that regarding the line. I would still draft O-line depth and a Wr in the second round is a must. The one problem that I doubt we will have is who to take if Gholston or Mcfadden are available. I would draft whoever fell to us with both of those players. If they were both gone I would try everything humanly possible to trade out of the 6th spot to get more picks. If I could not then I would draft the best Cb available because I don't think anybody else rates that high at De. I would also watch all of the end of training camp cuts of veteran O-linemen to shore up that line. I would also try to get as many people as I could to play d-line as well. It can't all happen this year but this is what the blueprint would be for me.
I have been very excited and happy about all the FA signings so far. I would like to personally keep DRob with a well-renegotiated contract. I would like to get rid of Hobson and Barton if we can come up with Gholston and some other LBs to work with Thomas, Pace, and Harris. We need more OL depth and we need more DL depth. We cannot do too much with the line of scrimmage until such time as the NYJ have played several games and left their counterparts on the line of scrimmage in shambles. This is the place to build the team first, and you have to be single-minded about it.
I absolutely agree with this. I feel teams just look to find lightning in a bottle instead of finding a suitable QB that you can groom and spend big money on a great proven QB coach. Maybe BS is that man, but I don't think he can do it and the OC job. There are too many fundamental mistakes by Chad and Kellen. I think either way they have to draft a QB this year or if Kellen fails then the team is set back at least 2 years.
I guess the reason I bash Chad so much is because every day he remains behind center it puts us that much further from a Championship. Even if Kellen is the real deal it will still be a maturation process for him to become Championship Caliber as well.
Either Chad or Kellen would do fine if our OL and Defense are dominating. Of course, once our OL is making play action work beautifully and is giving the WRs the time to run routes downfield, out and up, outside z to skinny post, etc, then the QB can have a good time with it. This is the kind of good offensive context that is prevailing instead of SUCKING ROPES that can nurture and improve a QB's performance. This is the kind of safe environment in which you can draft and develop a QB. Without this kind of line of scrimmage dominance, any QB you draft will be beaten into just another David Carr Pulp, as sure as hell. QBs shouldn't be our focus UNLESS and UNTIL we don't just get them killed when they come in like poor Kellen did last year and get just blasted by the defense and by the impatient and miserable fans.
And how many teams in the NFL have a dominating DL and OL? They can't all have one right? Then it would just be the league norm. Sorry, I don't by into your theory, it's just not practical.
Building a dominating offensive line is not a theory, it's a plan. It can be executed by smart people who are persistent and have the resources -- which is a good definition of our CS. Half-assed Madden collections of skill players behind swiss cheese OLs is a poor recipe for miserable disaster. You build a serious foundation before you start adding stories to the building. Think of the skill players as the pent house -- don't try it until you've got a suitable understanding of Big Uglies.
That I can completely agree with, but in terms of the QB doing fine is one of their own accord. Either QB will do better with a great O-line, but its the playmaking ability of both that I question. Yes, that does include throwing a 35 yrd bomb, but it also is running the 2 minute drill as good as the great QBs, not making mistakes on the last drive of the game that is either game tying or winning, lead not only the offense but the whole team. Also, the QB needs to make the line look as good as the Line makes the QB look good. The QB needs to make everyone look good, everyone better as a player, put a fire under their ass. I agree with the foundation at the line of scrimmage, i am a huge proponent of that as well, but i disagree with your opinion of having a JAG at the QB position, that rarely puts a team over the top and into greatness.
Nobody disputes the value of good lines, and nobody is mentioning skill position except for you. You're dancing around talking about QB's because you know we're right.
1....Throwing a 35yd bomb has never made a QB become great. QBs need to provide ball protection, something CP was unable to do last yr. I think he's one of the most accurate all time QB. Last yr was a bad yr in terms of ball protection. We all know what 'law of averages' can do and thats what happened. He can't throw a 35yd bomb, but he can throw a few 40yd completions. The bullet arm never took Testaverde to a SB and he was a very good QB with a little accuracy trouble. 2....He just could'nt win games 'single handedly' and we blame him for that. He made a few bad plays, I agree, but you have to look at what he brings behind Mangold. There is a reason why he is still with the Jets. We can get a 3rd rounder easily for him and possibly a conditional 2nd rounder if he plays good. But he's not gone ... and theres a reason to it. We all seem to agree that CP can take this team into the playoffs but cant win SB. Hey, Brady could'nt win it last yr. Peyton could'nt do it either. I've said this before, but Marino could'nt bring a ring either. That did'nt make the FO release him. Im not making any comparison between CP and all these great QBs. But if a QB can take you to the playoffs, he can win the SB too...see Eli. He's much worse than Chad. I would never take him over CP. But he won the SB. Winning the SB is'nt about having the greatest QB. Brad Johnson was'nt the greatest. He was an OK QB.
I just don't believe in wasting the time and money on skill positions when you can't protect them and you haven't created an environment where they can be successful. To me it just a matter of priorities. It will take two or three years of single minded investment, intelligence, hard work, and diligence to build a line of scrimmage tradition. During this time, you should focus all your resources on this goal. As the line sustains its improvement, this boom vs bust cycle will stop and the team will be playing a more consistently tough schedule because of its higher level of success. The OL and the DL are now prospering season to season and the quality of your skill players is elevated by their opportunities, and you can now begin to change your investment emphasis toward better quality playmakers -- once you can adequately support them. This is the recipe for a tradition of success. This approach effectively concentrates finite resources.
I agree with most of his points but I do disagree that Kellen is better than CP at this time. KC has proven nothing. CP has proven he can lead the team into playoffs. He took the 06 team to playoffs after coming back from back to back shoulder surgeries. 07 team was comparable to 06 but not as good. CP had a bad start and things never got rolling. One of those off years...
Quote: "...You're dancing around talking about QB's because you know we're right....' It's not that I think you are right about this, I just think talking about QB's is irrelevant and a waste of time and money when you can't protect them and they can't be successful. This is not a situation that you can fix in a single off-season. There isn't enough talent available and the NYJ's do have a salary cap. If the NYJ do select a QB in the draft in one of the later rounds where they can afford one, then perhaps they will be able to develop the QB over a 3.5 to 4 year period to perform well in this BS offensive strategy. But their ability to do so is predicated on their success in the first priority of the OL and the Defense.
I never said Chad in my post for a reason- the things i listed are things i look for in a winning QB because every winning QB has had those qualities. I'm using the winning mold that has been in place for 40+ years. I didn't say Clemens could throw the bomb either, but he's proved he can. But that doesn't make Clemens a great QB, i just believe arm strength is a plus in a QB. I'd list the SB winning QBs that had it, but that would be 90% of them. Chad can't win games by himself, and i think all Jet fans can blame him for that. Last year I had the full faith in Chad I had all his career, and then i watch him throw game sealing pick 6's with ample time to throw and for routes to develop. I never blamed him for the one in the 06 playoffs when it happened, but looking back- it started there. You argue that Brady didn't do it this year, and neither did peyton- but how many AFC Championship games have they been to? GW drives? and Rings? You shouldn't mention them at all, it hurts your argument whether you compare CP or KC to them or not. They have won them and they have every tool, tangible and intangible you need in a QB. Is Eli worse than Chad? Yes in stats- but not in the Playoffs... you know, where it counts.
from JOHNNYSD of another board: This is a very interesting read and logical too! Explain the logic of giving Chad another shot -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Someone has to explain the logic of this scenario: 1. QB is named starter FOR THE SEASON before season starts 2. QB plays so poorly that the coach is forced to bench the annointed starter, and does so at least two weeks late 3. Second year QB struggles like all first time starting QBs but offensive output improves and defense improves in the games he starts. He has a better record than the previous starter Here's where it gets goofy: 4. Since second year QB is not a top echelon QB by the end of the first seven games, the team holds a competition in camp between him and the starter who could not hold on to his position (???) Then goofier: 5. The starting position is given back to the deposed starter. His staunchest supporters agree he can be a great QB with an elite line RB and receiving corps, and an improved defense (ED: of course what QB wouldn't). Based upon the veteran's previous track record the best case scenario is that the team barely makes the playoffs and MAY win one game. Meanwhile: 6. The now third year QB, on the third of four years on his contract, gains no further experience. Any confidence he had built up from the seven games he started is gone. He does not develop any further and since he is already near the end of his contract, his career for the team is effectively over and we have given up. End result: 7a. Best possible outcome of this is that now we have a 25 year old QB that we have given up on. The returned starter now is also at the end of his contract. Do you give a 34 year old QB with an average career, a REALLY sketchy injury history including two surgeries to his already below average arm, a high priced (it would be) 3-5 year extension ???? 7b. Likely outcome: re-instated starter fails again but 2nd year starter is once again put into the starting role too late in the season, and this time with his confidence and leadership value lower than before. Third year starter stuggles again because of above. At the end of the season you still have no idea if he has what it takes to lead the team to success. Which leads to 8. We are left with a damagaed goods third year starter going into the last year of his contract and an aging broke down ineffective QB who has proven his days are over. Result: the team is F&*&ed for the next 2-3 years or more and instantly rebuilding again. Any dispassionate view of the QB situation would realize that starting Chad again under any circumstance except (see below) is utter madness for this organization and a instant recipe for DOOM for this franchise. It is the worst decision that this team could ever make. The best we can hope for is mediocrity. THE BEST IS MEDIOCRITY....is that OK with you? EXCEPTION: Three things have to be true for the exception to starting Pennington again: A. You have given up totally on Kellen and do not really feel he deserves or has earned the right for another opportunity B. You have given up on the upcoming season before it starts C. You draft a QB (probably at 6) with the intent of starting Pennington for one more season and turning the reins over to the new rookie the following year. Absent of that, any scenario where Pennington starts again (other than injury) is just MADNESS and incompetence by the coaching staff. It would be a FATAL and team destroying decision. Any ultimate outcome of Chad starting is a bad one. They either need to stay the course with Kellen, or draft a new QB of the future.
\XNZ Lets see giants have done well with both offensive and defensive lines...Then of course you have new england. Please no line no team,,,end of story z
