Who knows. Chad given time can do alot more than people seem to credit for, and I'm not a fan of him at all.
I'm sure he would improve his accuracy and raise his QB rating considerably....like he has in the past when he's had a decent O-line in front of him. But the deep ball will never be there. IMHO...we need to make the "deep ball" a more frequent option to compete in this league. The Jets haven't stretched the field since Vinchenzo was behind center. Yeah...I'm not a CP fan either.....his time is done. Give the kid a full Training camp and season, to see if he has what it takes. I think he does.
Yeah??? what makes you think accuracy is coachable? Did Vinny improve his accuracy? Did his gun sling arm take you to the SB? His TD-int ratio remained 1:1 almost through out his carear with a couple of good seasons. What u gonna do with all that arm strength if u cant complete the pass, or better yet, get intercepted? I fail to understand how people are comparing 60 passer rating to 86.
Carear is spelled CAREER, please make the adjustment. The point is that Clemens has a ceiling while Chad's head is stuck in his. Thats why Clemens can be worked with and bettered. Will it happen? Remains to be seen. Patience in the NFL is like asking man to fly- but it must be learned.
Man can only fly with the help of a few other things. He can not fly by himself. Lets see if cleMENs flies during the season, or flies off after the season. Either way, we need a first round grade QB. Take a chance next year maybe. With a few exceptions, most the franchise QBs are first day picks mostly in the first round. If we dont take the risk, we wont be rewarded. For some reason, I think Graham Harrell can be the next Brady - a late round surprise (when the heck is Brady gonna be on the Madden cover?) QBs are not ready with in wks to take over the team. They generally need about 2-3 yrs before they start putting the team into winning positions. If we draft one next year, he wont be ready to take over until 2010. By that time, our OL will become old unless we restructure it one more time. Coles will be a goner, Thomas will hit the wall at 32-33. We need to get some more young starters in whom we can trust for atleast 5-7 yrs. 3 starters in this years draft seems pretty likely they way we have drafted lately. I see good future for the jets however. If CP or Kellen perform good this year, then we should be considered a playoff team. This is not a SB team yet but can be next yr if this draft can produce 3 or maybe even 4 solid starters.
I think anybody here with any sense of objectivity will say that we don't have a QB on this team capable of getting us to the SB. Of course finding anybody here who is objective is a tough task in itself.
yes it is coachable if it's addressed early enough in a players career. by the time vinny got to the jets he was going on his 12th season in the nfl, after 12 seasons not much will be coachable anymore. and vinny as a jet in 6 seasons had 86 td and 52 ints... chad in 8 seasons has 82 and 55. I understand we need a qb, but until we get one i still say let clemens play a full season and see how he does, we know chad with a good team will only get us to the playoffs and then lose, lets see clemens for a full season, if he sucks draft a qb in 09.
Vinny, prior to his injury and when surrounded with good coaches carried the Jets to the AFC finals and had 29TD's and 7Int's. The main reason we didn't go to the SB that year is the Broncos got much more production from their HOF running back than we got from our HOF RB in the championship game. With a very good not great team Vinny came close to carrying the Jets to their second SB and was stellar in the playoffs including the game against Denver we lost. He was without a doubt the single best player on one of the best Jet historical teams. If your point is talent surrounded by great coaching doesn't mean anything, you're using a terrible example.
Ok, lets see now: Kellen won 3 games and it should have beeen 5( dropped passes, remember?) and CHADWICK won only 1 and threw ints that directly led to two losses. yeah, you make a fine point! and BOTH played with the same OL but only Kellen had to deal with COLES not being 100 per cent!
He could have just said this instead. Chad had 9 INTs in 9 games compared to Clemens 10 in 7 games. He had a 68.8% completion percentage compared to 52% He had a 86.1 QB rating compared to a 60.9 Shall I keep going? Would that have been a better point for you? Oh, and of those 3 wins Clemns really won one of them. Miami, the same team Chad beat. The defense beat Pittsburgh and KC came in to lose. They cared more about their draft picks than we did. It is just intellectually impossible for anybody to attempt to make the argument that Clemens should start over Pennington based on what each did in 2007.
The one major thing Clemens did show was the ability to bring the team back down the stretch. Chad not only proved he couldn't do it but in the pressure of having to come back in the 4th quarter he ended up throwing crucial picks that sealed the teams fate in close games. You can use stats all you want but the fact is Clemens showed something at the end of a couple of games that is the key ingredient to winning against good teams. This is a real upside for the team that can't be discounted in the pile of stats. While staying in games is alot about management, winning games against good teams is alot about making plays. For all of Chads gaudy completion % he rarely makes game changing plays and from behind in the 4th quarter he has had a penchant for clossing out games for the opposition.
While the deep ball is a "nice to have" at times, its persistent use generally does not win football games. But, you do need a guy that can throw on a rope for 25 - 30 yards.
I think what he showed was his lack of being successful under center for 3/4 of the game. It seems like Clemens did not have a handle on the game until the 2 minute drill where the defense is simplified and the offensive reads are simplified. It also help the DL is tired. I don't know if it is a product of the spread offense, but I really don't like QB's who came from this offense. They do not seem to do well at reading defenses or managing games. Alex Smith seems to be a lost cause, VY seems to be a bust to me, and I think Clemens is the same thing. He has major issues taking a 3 step drop and completing a slant route. I saw more than one ball land 5 yards in front of the WR. I think we have to do what the browns did last year if the Jets like Flacco or Brohm.
You just cannot be serious. There is in fact, NO VIABLE argument for Pennington to start at QB anymore, and many VIABLE arguments for Kellen to start. QB rating and completion percentage stats are in general misleading, and in CHad's case incredibly misleading. QB rating relies heavily on completion percentage so they are very inter-related. Never in the history of football has a QB been as eager to check down as Chad did and he did it on every play. Chad is the master at the four yard completion on 3rd and six. It is just as useless as an incomplete pass but it raises his completion percentage and his rating and makes it statistically look like he is performing better than he is. The fact is that anyone that can dispassionately look at the games last year, and not let their Chad favoritism get in the way would realize that Chad was completely and entirely ineffectual last year as a QB. He EARNED his benching which came at least two weeks too late. Chad demonstrated in addition to his eagerness to check down, a total incapacity to lead the team in a the two minute drill or from behind. In fact he is so bad in this area that he frequently pressed into a game ending pick six. His vaunted "QB intelligence" flew out of the window. He made poor decision after poor decision including his checkdowns on 3rd down. He threw many many balls that were somehow miraculously not intercepted. He is just not a starting caliber NFL QB anymore and he proved that on the field. There just is no justifcation from last year's perfromance to even give him the opportunity to win the starting job. The much quoted comments from Tannenbaum and Mangini about the QB competition are just a smoke screen to do two things: Maintain Chad's TRADE value if they decide to trade him, and as a motivational kick in the rear to Kellen to insure he works his tail off in the offseason to prepare for next year. If the Jets come out and say" Kellen is the starter" Chad's value decreases at least a round or two in trade value, and might even lead to his release for salary cap implications. Kellen was a mixed bag, but he was seriously hampered by weaknesses on the OL and in the receiving corps. Thos weaknesses were worse than the first half of the season when Chad was in there. Kellen showed a lot I think. With the exception of the KC game he showed great poise. He demonstrated the ability to make all the throws. He got the ball to the recievers quick enough for them to make plays after the catch. He was DRAMATICALLY more effective at the 2 minute drill and coming from behing than Chad. DRAMATICALLY. This by the way is reason enough alone to to start Kellen over Chad. If we are behind in the 4th quarter qith CHad we lose around 100% of the time. With Kellen we have a good chance. But Kellen struggled in some areas that Chad was better at. He struggled with short to medium crossing routes and slants often putting the bull in a bad position. He did not recognize blitz packages as well, or identify his one on one opportunity, but then again almost no first time starting QB does. He got sacked enough that in the KC game with a patchwork line that he seemed to not have confidence in, he seemed rattled and jittery. However, he offers way way more upside than Chad and deserves to (and will I believe) continue to develop as the STARTING QB of the Jets. Chads time is done and we have already moved on. A move back to his medicrity is a death knell for this young team's development. Only someone blinded with irrational fan bias towards Chad could honestly believe he should still start. One more thing about Chad: he is not "accurate". People go on and on and on about how "accurate" Chad is but that is not true. He is above average in the accuracy department but not all world like people seem to think. What Chad has is "touch" which is somewhat related to his lack of arm strength. He throws a very very catchable ball with low velocity so that even when he is not "accurate" the ball is catchable. So his completion percentage goes up and his QB rating goes up and people think he is accuate when he is not. He is "catchable". He also has great touch on little swing routes and dump offs. Interestingly, Chad's catchable balls hurt Clemens in his first year. Our receivers really struggled to adapt to the difference between his ball and Chad's and there were a criminal number of drops against Clemens. So many so that if a majority had been made there would not be this conversation going on.
All fair point but you do realize what the flip side of this is. When reads aren't as important when the D is tired and it comes down to ability to make plays against a tired D under the stress of winning games from even or behind, Chad can't take advantage because he lacks the ability to make a tired D cover more space. Clemens has ability and apparently is very bright. He likely will read better and will improve his footwork. Chad is likely never to be able to make key throws in space with the game on the line.
Throwing the "Deep Ball" downfield requires lots of Tom Brady Time. Did any of you guys actually stop watch how long Brady was being given to throw his bombs? Did any of you guys figure out how long it took Randy Moss to run 40 yards down to the goal line, make a left turn from his wide right position, and race across the entire field to catch a pass at the 1 yard line OUTSIDE the left hash mark and come to a stop in the end zone. Virtually any QB in the NFL with that amount of Tom Brady time along with a speedy 6' 5'' receiver could set his feet and let fly a bomb to Moss. What happens to a QB's timing, his balance, his footwork, and his choices when he has no time (1.8 seconds) and has been hit on almost every offensive play? Ask Tom Brady about his experience in the SB this year. When the NYJ have a powerful dominating running game, then we'll complete some passes. Having said that, we do need some more SPEED at Wide out. Some REAL speed. Some scary speed. We don't have any. We need to worry about the OL, the running game, speed on the outside, the Defense, for a helluva long time and get it right in ALL those areas before we get wierd about the QB.
http://www.thejetsblog.com/?p=3683 read this article. I think pennington can throw deep. obv not like brett favre but yes like joey garcia. He threw a good deep ball to coles in the bengals game, i jsut dont think he tries it enough becasue hes smart and knows his line sucked.
The offense always has the advantage in the 2 minute drill. It takes a lot more out of the Defense because they don't know what will happen and they have to react. The 2 minute drill also discourages substitutions. One of the devastating tactics of the Colts is that with the exact same group of players they can run multiple different sets, and run multiple different plays from the same set. The more the defense has to react, the more starch the offense takes out of them. Eli Manning loves to run the 2 minute drill because he can wear out a defense. Peyton can too. Kellen can too. And Chad can too. The problem is that when the DL is kicking your OL in the face and groin on every play, there is not enough time to do things very well. This trench warfare has a fatal impact on the 2 minute drill.
Kellen was much better than Chad with our bad OL against the 2 minute drill, Chad when forced to throw is a liability, he was dredful in it because he simply can't throw the football.
