you cant forget the size issue either, flacco stands at a nfl sized 6'6 230, clemens is listed at 6'2 223, and i think they might be adding a little to that height stat.
As much as i like Flacco, I have a question--- If Justin McFuck catches the game tying TD pass in Baltimore- would we be spending time talking about Clemen's comeback ability in the 4th quarter?
With the very few times that I've heard Flacco speak, he sounds like he was mugged by the Wonderlic test. Not good. Strong Arm + Low Wonderlic = Ryan Leaf. Do we really want to have the next Ryan Leaf? And Dude, what's with the size-envy thing? Wasn't Montana even smaller than Kellen?
im just saying that if your going to take a shot on either one of two young quarterbacks, size and arm strength are two major factors. Unless you saw flashes of Joe Montana in Kellen last season that I missed, I think Flaccos physichal stature is an asset.
Im tired of the Kellen bashing- He was in a terrible situation (inexperienced, no offensive line, no weapons) last year and he showed major positives (big arm, ability to run for a first down, ably ran the 2 minute offense). Its not fair to begin looking for Kellen's replacement.
Purely speaking of physical stature and not playing ability. Bigger, stronger, faster? Sure that's an asset. But for a QB, intelligence and moxie also means a lot. Maybe more so.
We should move up and take him. His stock is rising for good reason. Maturity, good judgement, smart, good leadership skills, mobility and a bazooka. Did I mention 6' 5", 230 and durable? A young Vinnie Testaverde comes to mind, I hate to even bring that name up, but not one that would be going to a new, expansion franchise with lousy blocking, no running game, piss-poor receivers and no coaching. This kid would be stepping into a good system and have time to learn under Chad Pennington and a struggling, if not somewhat capable, Kellen Clemens. If Clemens turns into the next Tom Brady, all the better... we keep him and trade off Flacco for good value. But if Clemens continues to exhibit inability despite our revamped line and (hopefully) upgraded RB/WR corps, then we dump Clemens and Flacco gets the start.
This isn't the 80's anymore. Montana was great back then but in today's game, EVERYBODY is much much bigger and faster. Size matters much more today than it did back then. Cmon, do you really want your Qb to have to roll out or throw to a "spot" because he can't see over his OLine downfield?? Besides that, Bret Farve doesn't sound like a Rhodes scholar either but look how that turned out.
I couldnt agree more Cman. Plus if Kellen is what you some of you supporters think he can be, what would be better to bring out his abilities than a competetion with another young quarterback with another strong arm in camp. It would be much more intense competetion than just Chad and Kellen.
Do you think that Staubach, Otto Graham and Montana can't play in today's game? Jeez, I could have sworn that Doug Flutie had a career that anyone would be proud to have had. I guess that's why a guy like Wes Welker goes undrafted and someone Zack Thomas (5th Rd.) and Tofa Tatupu (2nd) (sp?) gets overlooked. As a WR, don't you normally have someone weighing 220lbs going at 4.5 speed crashing at full velocity into you. As an ILB, don't you have to take on Guards and lead blockers to make a play? I guess all three players couldn't play in the NFL, huh? He is not a rocket scientist but Brett does not sound like the Wonderlic just mugged him. You don't have to speak in colorful proses for me to think you're articulate. Just speak in an inteligible manner and you're good with me. Measurables are good but they are not the only things that determines success in the NFL. Just remember that Ryan Leaf was thought of as a better prospect than Peyton Manning by those who ignored his Wonderlic score.
The Wonderlic isnt everything. Vince young did horrible on it and is still the best pro qb out of his draft class. Even though Leinart and Cutler scored higher on the wonderlic, Young still had that feel for the game. I think the same case can be made for Flacco, if in fact he did to poorly on his Wonderlic. I havent heard that he has.
Those three HOF greats you just named probably couldn't play in today's game at the level they're famous for. Doug Flutie really didn't have much going for him once he came south of the Great White North. Ryan Leaf? Why does everyone that wants an example of a strong armed mental box of rocks, falls back on Ryan Leaf or Browning Nagle? Never do you hear Jim Everett, Vinny Testaverde or other tall, moderately successful Qb's names. The game has evolved since the 80's MM. Although Leaf was rated higher than Manning, what did they both have in common? Size and Arm Strength. Manning was able to learn the system and become who he is today. Leaf wasn't. Who's to say that Flacco can't learn although he might not be as articulate as Phil Simms? If those videos are any indication, Flacco might be the Jets best chance of getting a prototype 21st century NFL Franchise QB.
Kevin Mawae shortly after Norm Chow was let go as the Titan's OC: "He (Vince Young) needs to be more of a student-of-the-game" Sounds like a diplomatic translation for "dumb-mofo-just-can't-pick-up-the-mental-side" of the game and got a smart coach fired for it. Feel for the game? Great for players in positions where instinct plays a major part of the game but in a QB? Prediction: Vince Young will be a BUST and his apologists will point at lack of help as an excuse. If you're using Young as a counter-point to my to mine, then you just further lost me.
I would disagree with some of that. Staubach was one of the best athletes to ever play the QB position. His playing weight lists as 6'3", 197. If he played today he'd probably play at 210-220 pounds. Advancements in medicine and science and year-round training certainly would not hurt. Graham was only 6'1". He likely would not have been as great if he played in this current era. Montana would have been great in any era.
New England Patriots. I'd bet a mortgage payment that Everett and Testaverde scored higher in the Wonderlic. Sidebar: Too bad of Everett. I really thought highly of him. Thank you for validating my point. Manning succeeded because he can learn the system he was put into. Leaf failed because he couldn't. Phil Simms? Please don't insult the man. Dumb-is-dumb in the '80's just as much as dumb-is-dumb in the 22nd century. If videos are the basis for your argument, then Vince Young would have surpassed Peyton Manning, Tom Brady and Donovan McNabb by now. To my chagrin, he hasn't.
Joe Flacco is a QB that can thrive in an NFL System. He transferred from Pitt to UD and a first year starter threw for 2783 with 18 tds and 10 ints. In his second and final season for the team he threw for 4263 yards with 23 tds and 5 ints. He is a smart player that can learn and thrive in the right situation. I think playing behind the Jets now solid o-line could be that situation. Don't forget he took UD to the 1-AA Championship against THe Wolverine Killer Appalchian State in a game that was a fumble and a horrible call away from being close.
So you're saying that by having acquired those stats in D1-AA in his first year at UD (after two lackluster years at Pitt) makes him a viable reason for foregoing the team's investment in Kellen Clemens and the security of having Penny as a fall-back option.....hmmm, let me think about that (for a nano second). NO.
No thats actually not what I'm saying at all. Im saying that no matter how much the jets invested in 1529 yards in 10 game 5 td 10 int kellen clemens, it wouldn't bring in a winning quarterback, that is a great leader and hard worker, that could bolster the QB competetion. I'm not quitting on Kellen as you keep referring, im just protecting our ASSets
