The O it was clear we needed to sign Faneca and add both depth on the right side or an outright new RT or both. Just focusing on the D were the moves we made really good moves or were they simply moves made because the HC couldn't adapt? Are Jenkins and Pace really more talented and valuable than DRob and Vilma? Is this a personal problem, or a coaching problem? The 3/4 or the 4/3 an argument that raged on this board. Is Mangini just an inflexible coach who couldn't put talent in position to succeed in a 4/3 and has spent like a fool without really upgrading the talent simply to play his prefered 3/4? My own opinion is talent is talent and the more the better and it's up to the coaches to figure it out. DRob who I always thought underperformed clearly has big time talent and Vilma who I hate in the 3/4 clearly is effective in a 4/3 with two tackles eating up blockers. Are these moves really making the Jets a more talented D or are they putting a young HC in his comfort zone? I'm all for having my coaches comfortable but more than that I'm very into adding talent on top of talent.
well its too late to go back to the 4/3 now..... so lets just go with the 3/4 and let tangini build "there" team.........on paper it looks like we'll be significantly better
I think the case is that Mangini probably feels that playing a 3-4 will give him the best chance to win... It's something that he's developed and worked on with the Pats for years and probably believes its a superior defense. In that case, he's going to bring in guys who fit that system because it would be better than running what is in his mind a less effective Defense.
Are you talking about more talented than say the 2004 team? Maybe not, who knows? However, the way Mangini has played it, the team is much better now with these 3-4 friendly players. Mangini changed from the 4-3 to the 3-4, thats the bottom line. Vilma and Robertson both have talent, but it is suited for the 4-3.
Winstonbiggs, you surely sound as if you are of two minds. I happen to believe that this 3-4 / 4-3 hybrid that Mangini is building is a very great defense. The NYJ defense has played very well this past year but was worn out by an offense that consistently was driven off the field time and time again. Making this defense better by bringing in and motivating bigger LBs and DLs is a great step. I don't think this is done out of desparation or comfort. From what Tannenbaum is saying this is a plan that they have come up with as a group and they are busy executing. The FA is the first half and the draft is the second half. Then what they do when they get all the pieces that they want / can afford will be the second stage. You can say that I like to believe that they have a plan. But I also think that a pretty damned serious cost - benefits presentation was made well before this plan was put into practice. I also believe that this presentation is being updated for the writers of each new check as the deals are struck and approved by the NFL. Channeling this kind of money around in any business is not done lightly, but it can be done if you're prepared to make a case. They have. And hopefully they will be right.
All I know is this; from the days of Herm trying to run his version of the cover 2 with the wrong personel and having Ted C trying to run his version of the Buffalo defense and never really getting it right. It's a pleasure to watch a coach taking some time to truly evaluate what he's inherited and go forth with a clear cut plan of what he wants.
I feel that Mangini is truly a very smart coach who is destined for greatness. However, we were his first team, and he definitely made a few mistakes and mishandled a few situations here. He is learning. Bellichik "the great" also committed several errors early on in his head coaching career.
So what do you suggest? Call off Vilma trade and go back to 4-3 now? They have moved on, all right? I just don't get the point of this posting; the coach is trying to install the defense he's comfortable with, and you have issues with that, is that right? If that's the case, you should blame Woody to boot, since HE's the one that installed Mangini the 3-4 coach in the first place, no?
I think the IDEA is to give us the right kind of talent for the HC to use in the system he believes in....whether or not they are right is yet to be seen.
Talent is just talent if it doesn't produce results. It has become clear that we werent going to get results with DRob & Vilma playing prominent roles in this D. New Coaches always bring in their system to their new teams. Were Vilma or Drob really good enough in the 4-3 to keep a new HC from running the D that he knows can work with the right pieces? Besides out of the 4 mentioned, Jenkins has the most proven NFL talent of the bunch, the rest are debateable..
How about TALENTED players adapting???? Like I said before, college D's arent the as NFL but the kids learn.
I happen to like this HC alot. I think he is young and has made mistakes but on balance I think the team is well prepared and plays very hard. As I said on the OL I think the moves had to be made this was the result of neglect by the prior regime and if you want to indict Tannenbaum and Mangini for mishandling the Kendall situation I have no doubt that Kendall also helped create the situation and hopefully they learn from it. The D on the other hand is an entirely different proposition. I happen to be of two minds on this. I personally like tough, nasty defenses and I think Harris is in that mold and I really like turning over the leadership of this team to him. I do however wonder if we have really upgraded the talent or have we just shuffled the deck and gotten a bit bigger and stronger at the expense of speed that was badly utilized?
of course he could have filled out a good 4-3 roster. that is way easier than getting people to fit a 3-4.....he could have taken the easy way out and switched. he stuck to his guns and now we are finding 3-4 guys. lets see if it works
I feel its a posting problem. If Parcells had come back and installed the 34 no matter what, people would except it because of his track record. That track record includes of making several teams good, but only winning the big game with one. This is not about putting a young HC in his comfort zone. An old Hc would have done the same thing. This is about getting players who fit the scheme our coach runs. Our coach. Like it or hate it, Mangini is our coach untill Woody runs him out of town. Given the track record for that its going to be awhile. Talent is talent. Given that, Aretha Franklin has no right singing with Black Sabbath? Why? Even though she may be talented, she is jsut not the right singer for that group. This is not "inexperince" that is making us get these players. It is finding people to fit what our coaching staff wants to do. Palyers have been evaluated. After that they have been retained or moved. now comes the big test. We have spent money and lots of it. Now is the time to tell if we actually have people in the place who can evaluate talent and make it preform on the feild.
this is like making a english teacher teach spanish....mangini is a 3/4 coach, not a 4/3...why is this so hard to comprehend...players cant adapt to a 3/4 if they dont have size....vilma and drob were to small for the 3/4...people used to say put vilma at safety....its a whole different level there and it wouldnt work..hes not agile enough for it...period.....mangini is getting rid of the misfits and replacing them with people that can make his d better.....this has nothing to do with comfort....hes doing to win...he would be comfortable with drob, he would be comfortable with vima....but he would win with people who actually fit his defense....we have been drafting defensive players for the 3/4...we made a decision and theres no turning back until we get a new coach which i personally feel wont change for the next 6-8 years...anyways, these 3/4 4/3 threads are stupid because its not like mangini chills on tgg and reads what we think....he knows more than we do...i no this is ur opinions guys which is totally cool...just venting a lil...thank you lol:up:
Exactly. And the overvaluing of DRob and Vilma has to stop man...Vilma was a very good 4-3 MLB but those guys aren't exactly rare...and DRob...seriously? The guys been called a bust by Jets fans for years, now he's some kickass talent we're giving away?
I totally agree Johnny. A lot of posters have mentioned that fact that he is either stubborn or cant change. I think thats total bull. Its what he believes in. He is willing to sink or swim with what he believes in. Christ, he had guys on this roster to make a 4-3 work this past year. I would take a coach that isnt wishy washy and has a philosophy that he is willing to stick with any day of the week. Unlike the last coach we had who was a cover 2 guy that ended up being a blitzing guy with Henderson. Secondly, anyone that believes he never incorporated any 4-3 last year didnt watch the same games I watched. His true philosophy isnt 3-4 all day and all night. He is of the bb background where you truly have no idea what he is throwing at you...4-3...3-4....2-5..or whatever. Personally? I think he saw a DT that was good but preferred a DT with size..no matter what formation..and he saw a middle linebacker who even in a 4-3 had hardly any tackles behind the line of scrimmage and rarely ever dominated a game. How can I put this respectfully...Vilma was a tackle whore...he ate up tackles 3,4,7 yards off the line of scrimmage. A solid player but some of you need to relax with this guy.
Exactly. The complaints about the 3-4 here is ridiculous...heres what Mangini's mentor had to say about the 3-4 D: 22 Nov 2006 04 Feb 2005 There is way too much emphasis on the front by fans and not enough on the versatility and play of these two guys.
Call me skeptical , but I'm going to wait and see how this pans out before I start shouting from the roof tops. Mangini is getting 'his' players in now , and one thing I do know for sure is that come the end of next season , if we haven't been pulling up trees , hes going to have the crowd on his back , AND Woody. I'll just sit here comforably on the fence in the meantime.
